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Thread: Baroness Thatcher dies, age 87 [W:113]

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    Re: Baroness Thatcher dies, age 87 [W:113]

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hays View Post
    "Turf and religious wars" have lasted thousands of years. I suspect they'll still be with us in 100 years.
    Thatcher was a tragic figure..who took the reins of the Conservative party..

    She took the poison chalice.. run by men..who eventually stabbed her in the back..(Et tu Brutus??)

    The worst one was Michael Heseltine..who has excused himself from any pomp or ceremony...

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    Re: Baroness Thatcher dies, age 87 [W:113]

    Quote Originally Posted by wolfie View Post
    Thatcher was a tragic figure..who took the reins of the Conservative party..

    She took the poison chalice.. run by men..who eventually stabbed her in the back..(Et tu Brutus??)

    The worst one was Michael Heseltine..who has excused himself from any pomp or ceremony...
    She will be remembered, and admired, long after her critics, enemies and betrayers are known only to graduate students researching their Ph.D. dissertations.
    "It's always reassuring to find you've made the right enemies." -- William J. Donovan

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    Re: Baroness Thatcher dies, age 87 [W:113]

    Quote Originally Posted by austrianecon View Post
    Actually, sorry to say I do. UK "Constitution" isn't codified which means it's mainly common law based. Which is law developed by judges through decisions of courts or opinions.
    LOL. You're heading even further away from the original point of the thread and you're also contradicting yourself. The UK constitution is something for another thread but I see no point in turning a flexible living constitution into something written in stone which may not be relevant in 2-300 years time.

    Quote Originally Posted by austrianecon View Post
    Well, Gerry Adams writing you know it's ghost written.
    And? Has Mr Adams since refuted what was written?

    Quote Originally Posted by austrianecon View Post
    Christian Science Monitor? Seriously? So the pro-Unionist front in the US? You are gonna have to try harder.
    So you think Mr Hume's statement is innaccurate or somehow made up just because it's from a source you don't like. Heyo, good refutation.


    Quote Originally Posted by austrianecon View Post
    -- What are the assets? Oh that's right Oil. Anything else you want to argue on?
    I think you're just arguing for the sake of it and have lost track of what you were originally saying. Your start point was about the UK losing small islands "England would lose Forties, Shetland, Moray and Northern Scotland Coast so in reality that's like 80% plus of the Northern Sea Oil that England has rights to."

    Anyhow, this is pretty pointless - I'll come back when the thread gets back on track.




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    Re: Baroness Thatcher dies, age 87 [W:113]

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hays View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Infinite Chaos View Post
    Personally I think it needs a good 100 years for history to look back more objectively on the period of "the troubles." There may or may not be any nation states in Europe by then and these turf and religious wars may seem very odd through history's eyes.
    "Turf and religious wars" have lasted thousands of years. I suspect they'll still be with us in 100 years.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hays View Post
    She will be remembered, and admired, long after her critics, enemies and betrayers are known only to graduate students researching their Ph.D. dissertations.
    Your second statement is what I was trying to hint at. Here in the UK the main protesters on the streets all look suspiciously like they aren't old enough to have been born when Thatcher was in power, they're mostly all brandishing Socialist Worker Party / Socialist Worker posters or old union flags.

    They don't represent the rest of us.

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    Re: Baroness Thatcher dies, age 87 [W:113]

    Quote Originally Posted by Infinite Chaos View Post
    Your second statement is what I was trying to hint at. Here in the UK the main protesters on the streets all look suspiciously like they aren't old enough to have been born when Thatcher was in power, they're mostly all brandishing Socialist Worker Party / Socialist Worker posters or old union flags.

    They don't represent the rest of us.
    Thank you. I believe you.
    "It's always reassuring to find you've made the right enemies." -- William J. Donovan

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    Re: Baroness Thatcher dies, age 87 [W:113]

    Baroness Thatcher's photograph is on the cover of this week's The Economist. The caption "Freedom fighter" is an apt description.
    "It's always reassuring to find you've made the right enemies." -- William J. Donovan

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    Re: Baroness Thatcher dies, age 87 [W:113]

    Quote Originally Posted by Infinite Chaos View Post
    Your second statement is what I was trying to hint at. Here in the UK the main protesters on the streets all look suspiciously like they aren't old enough to have been born when Thatcher was in power, they're mostly all brandishing Socialist Worker Party / Socialist Worker posters or old union flags.

    They don't represent the rest of us.
    You read what you wanted to read because you were itching to make the cheap shot that you implied.

    As much as you wish that they don't represent a constituency you are wrong.

    Thatcher was as big a class warfare politician as any one of those revolutionary socialists that you turn your nose up at (while applauding the same characteristics in the Iron lady).

    Guess what, I was there and they represent me but, I guess I'm probably one of the 'enemy within' and do not qualify as 'the rest of us'.

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    Re: Baroness Thatcher dies, age 87 [W:113]

    Quote Originally Posted by William Rea View Post
    You read what you wanted to read because you were itching to make the cheap shot that you implied.

    As much as you wish that they don't represent a constituency you are wrong.

    Thatcher was as big a class warfare politician as any one of those revolutionary socialists that you turn your nose up at (while applauding the same characteristics in the Iron lady).

    Guess what, I was there and they represent me but, I guess I'm probably one of the 'enemy within' and do not qualify as 'the rest of us'.
    Well now, Thatcher's policies rewarded the "get up off your backside and do something" attitude as opposed to the "life owes me a living" whether they were poor / rich etc.

    How does allowing working class council home owners buy their own property constitute class warfare?
    How does 1 in 4 Brits owning shares by 1990 constitute class warfare?
    Thatcher closed far less mines in her time than did Tony Benn (darling of the left) when he was in Wilson's 1960's government but all we ever hear from some is "Thatcher closed the mines!" Why do you continue to ignore these statistics?

    Fact is - most of the people pictured in media broadcasts having street parties to celebrate her death all look young (under 30) and many are pictured brandishing Socialist Worker Party posters - do you dispute this?

    Sky News Video and pictures

    Guardian Video and article.

    The Scotsman Article

    About 12 protesters attempted a conga while chanting “Maggie, Maggie, Maggie, dead, dead, dead”. Most were under 30, if not 25. Why come to celebrate the death of a woman who lost power before you were born?
    “Because Thatcher, and everything she stood for, is still relevant to me and my generation,” said one participant, 21-year-old Clopin Meehan, a film studies student at the University of Glasgow. “We live with her legacies. We’re the ones who are paying for it.”
    Of course these people represent a constituency - does that constituency represent the rest of us? Has this constituency ever wanted what was best for our country or for another such as the USSR? Were not many of the 1970's and 80's union leaders most opposed to Thatcher or against moving UK industrial relations forward members of the UK communist party?

    Some even members or moles for the KGB?

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    Re: Baroness Thatcher dies, age 87 [W:113]

    She sold off the public utilities at a discount, to be bought up by the elite 12% who now own 40% of Britain's wealth. She oversaw the decimation of the coal, steel, rail, and other major manufacturing industries, and showed precious little compassion while doing so. Above all, she is identified with hard times by families throughout the country.

    " ...Mrs T shared the same reductionism. The organised working class, almost alone, had put Britain on the skids. Not the loss of imperial markets, not lazy management, not the education system, not the decline of the industrial ethic: bitter men standing on platforms and asking for a show of hands to down tools were solely to blame.

    It may be wrong to imagine that she intended to de-industrialise Britain, but the policies followed by her government had that effect. A strong pound crippled exports and emptied factories. Having no social or political connection with the class most affected, she gave a very good impression of not caring. The south of England and the City of London were the future; the revenues from North Sea oil would pay for the unemployed in the old zones of manufacturing industry.

    The day before she died I passed through Greenock on the train. In 1979 it had a mile or so of shipyards, a sugar works and factories that still made rope and ship's fittings. On Sunday, looking down at the waterfront, I could see how these had been replaced by a housing estate, a supermarket, and sometimes by nothing at all.

    We can't blame (or credit) her for all of this, of course. But she personified the change from meaning to meaninglessness in so many settlements and lives, and for this reason she is hard to forgive

    Strident, divisive, and in her own view infallible, and for these reasons hard to mourn..."

    Why Margaret Thatcher is hard to mourn | Politics | The Guardian
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    Re: Baroness Thatcher dies, age 87 [W:113]

    Quote Originally Posted by Manc Skipper View Post

    The day before she died I passed through Greenock on the train. In 1979 it had a mile or so of shipyards, a sugar works and factories that still made rope and ship's fittings. On Sunday, looking down at the waterfront, I could see how these had been replaced by a housing estate, a supermarket, and sometimes by nothing at all.

    We can't blame (or credit) her for all of this, of course. But she personified the change from meaning to meaninglessness in so many settlements and lives, and for this reason she is hard to forgive

    Strident, divisive, and in her own view infallible, and for these reasons hard to mourn..."

    Why Margaret Thatcher is hard to mourn | Politics | The Guardian
    Those shipyards, the sugar works and factories only survived in 1979 because of subsidies and restricted trade that made all Britons poorer. She freed you from that. As The Economist proclaimed on its cover with her photo: "Freedom fighter."
    "It's always reassuring to find you've made the right enemies." -- William J. Donovan

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