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Thread: Baroness Thatcher dies, age 87 [W:113]

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    Re: Baroness Thatcher dies, age 87

    Quote Originally Posted by Infinite Chaos View Post
    It's worse than this, the expectation that the rest of the country pay for and subidise their employment for ever (jobs for life ideals) ran deep as you can see from those I disagree with even now.
    To be honest, I think it has much more to do with how she and her government tackled the issue, than the actual lost jobs and massive subsidies needed to keep them alive. I am not saying the miners were angels in this fight.. they made mistakes as well, but the hard nosed gestapo tactics that Thatcher and the police used to break the backbone of the miners and basically all resistance to Thatcher was not very democratic, nor in many ways legal under standards today. But that is how Thatcher was... pissing on the law and democracy if they were in her way.. just like with Northern Ireland.

    Look at it this way, subsidizing mines was technically illegal under EEC law and it was not long after that many other industries including mining were basically cut off from massive state subsidies across Europe. It was a slog fest, but it was only in the UK that there was such much violence and basically gestapo tactics invoked.
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    Re: Baroness Thatcher dies, age 87

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    Britain might have gained more status had they mined for pearls that weren't there rather than coal that wasn't there.
    Err the coal was and still is there. It was never an issue about lack of coal, but an issue of relying on outdated technology and high costs vs other countries new technology and lower costs.
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    Re: Baroness Thatcher dies, age 87

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    Err the coal was and still is there. It was never an issue about lack of coal, but an issue of relying on outdated technology and high costs vs other countries new technology and lower costs.
    Then here's your chance to make a worthwhile investment, perhaps with a consortium of other wise capitalists who recognize an opportunity and are keen to get involved in a centuries old industry.

    It seems that British leftists wanted their governments to invest in more coal mines and American leftists want their government to invest in wind and solar. Both ideas seem to have led to big time losses for the taxpayers.

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    Re: Baroness Thatcher dies, age 87

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    Then here's your chance to make a worthwhile investment, perhaps with a consortium of other wise capitalists who recognize an opportunity and are keen to get involved in a centuries old industry.

    It seems that British leftists wanted their governments to invest in more coal mines and American leftists want their government to invest in wind and solar. Both ideas seem to have led to big time losses for the taxpayers.
    Are you saying that we should not invest in centuries old energy industries... like oil, which is older than coal?

    And it had nothing to do with left or right, but nationalistic pride. When the right were in power they did nothing, because coal was the foundation of the British Empire... much how oil is seen as the basic foundation for the US today and all other energy sources are scorned... by among others you.
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    Re: Baroness Thatcher dies, age 87



    "Well, Margaret Thatcher is perhaps the politician I have the greatest admiration for. I am reading her memoirs at the moment"

    Tony Blair


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    Re: Baroness Thatcher dies, age 87

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    Are you saying that we should not invest in centuries old energy industries... like oil, which is older than coal?
    Of course I'm not your financial adviser but if old is your interest then peat might be the way to go.

    And it had nothing to do with left or right, but nationalistic pride.
    Nationalistic pride? Where does that fit into unprofitable businesses?

    When the right were in power they did nothing, because coal was the foundation of the British Empire...
    What would you have had them do?
    much how oil is seen as the basic foundation for the US today and all other energy sources are scorned... by among others you.
    My scorn is for politicians who think they can be savvy entrepreneurs with taxpayer dollars, and all those who support them.

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    Re: Baroness Thatcher dies, age 87

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    Of course I'm not your financial adviser but if old is your interest then peat might be the way to go.
    Hey you are the one calling coal for "old", and all I am reminding you that your favorite energy source... oil, is even older.

    Nationalistic pride? Where does that fit into unprofitable businesses?
    LOL have you read a freaking history book? Nationalistic pride has driven unprofitable businesses for centuries. When the colonies became unprofitable to run.. did the British leave them? Of course not they fought tooth and nail to keep them.

    What would you have had them do?
    Me? Why are you asking me, you are the one complaining over "old industries" and all I am pointing out that coal was unprofitable in the UK before 1940 and yet both Tories and Labor kept the pits open to fuel their Empire, all in the while they cheated colonies out of oil reserves.

    My scorn is for politicians who think they can be savvy entrepreneurs with taxpayer dollars, and all those who support them.
    The you must hate the GOP in the US... the amount of taxpayer money they want to pump into oil and weapons... both of which give massive profits regardless of the subsidies or not. Talk about a waste of taxpayer funds.
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    Re: Baroness Thatcher dies, age 87

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    -- Look at it this way, subsidizing mines was technically illegal under EEC law and it was not long after that many other industries including mining were basically cut off from massive state subsidies across Europe. --
    I was saving the subsidies under EEC law bit for later but it's one of the areas those who think the mines should have been kept open forever at taxpayer cost never seem to factor into their argument.

    So much easier to blame Thatcher for it.

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    -- the hard nosed gestapo tactics that Thatcher and the police used to break the backbone of the miners and basically all resistance to Thatcher was not very democratic, nor in many ways legal under standards today.
    Scargill called a national strike without balloting his members - democratic? Unionised workers in one industry would come out in secondary action for completely unrelated workers: all at taxpayer expense. Democratic?

    Unions rather than the electorate would bring down a government - unions where a number of the higher ranking members since turned out to be members of the British Communist Party or KGB agents. Democratic?

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    Re: Baroness Thatcher dies, age 87

    Quote Originally Posted by Infinite Chaos View Post
    I moved no goalposts - you made the claim about how all things are worse. I'll give you some more balanced reading in contrast - figures from the Office of National Statistics.

    By the way - I'd still like to see you back up the social / political / foreign policy etc claims you made against Thatcher.
    So, you completely avoid the question, so I'll repeat it. In what way are things better now than then, in any of the categories I claimed otherwise? Unemployment, social and economic equality, child poverty, personal debt. You offer us a Spectator blog which shows that in 2 of those categories I was right, and in the other 2 it mentions nothing. You think it's a great achievement that service sector employment now constitutes about 80% of the total? You think that GDP growth figures give us an accurate picture of living standards? And you think that an increase from 110-130 GBP ($170-$200) weekly household income in 34 years is any kind of achievement?

    Boy, you made that very easy!
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    Re: Baroness Thatcher dies, age 87

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    The miners might have gained more status had they mined for pearls that weren't there rather than coal that wasn't there.
    Forty per cent of Britain's energy supply today comes from coal. Imported coal.
    Don't work out, work in.

    Never eat anything that's served in a bucket.

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