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Pastor Rick Warren's son commits suicide

It doesn't matter how nicely you say that gay people are inferior or how nicely you compare same-sex relationships to adultery, you're still saying the same thing,

yeah I missed the part about him call gays inferior. Where exactly is that in the clip again?
 
I think you're missing my point: "Stoicism" is the abnormal response to such a situation and I have very rarely seen it. It is more normal to question one's "god"................................Or age overnight, or tear one's shirt off.........................

I have had two such losses.. but you have to go on.. and there are others who depend on you.
 
I think you're missing my point: "Stoicism" is the abnormal response to such a situation and I have very rarely seen it. It is more normal to question one's "god"................................Or age overnight, or tear one's shirt off.........................

Abnormal to you- not abnormal to everyone. Stoicism has existed formally since the Hellenistic period, as a philosophy. Much of that line of thought is normal to some people. Like every other response to grief, being stoic can cause problems of its own, but it's certainly not an abnormal response.

When a person who is a part of our life dies, understanding the uniqueness of this loss can guide us in finding the support we will need and to recognize when help should come from outside family or friends.

When someone under our care or someone we'd like to help experiences a loss, this understanding is essential. Thus we can guard against a temptation to compare or to judge their grief responses to our own. The awareness of those factors that affect the manner, intensity and duration of grief, should enable us to guide the grieving person in seeking those forms of support suggested by the nature of their loss and the unique way it affects them.
https://www.save.org/index.cfm?fuse...ge_id=EB91B16C-7E90-9BD4-C33DBD8E013C1857&r=1

The human brain does not limit us to what we can use this for. Society tries to limit us (i.e. you must be miserable when bad things happen to you). The fact is that you don’t have to be…the brain allows a person to take a more calm approach to something if a person knows how to use their brain this way. Anytime we lose anything that we want there is grief (sadness). RLT does not believe that grieving takes any specific amount of time or that you must go through certain stages. When a person knows how to counsel themself rationally there is often a better outcome with respect to how much misery a person has to go through. Being appreciative about what we have or had because there are no guarantees. This is often where people go wrong. When a person does not get what they think they have coming to them they damn the world and themselves.

The advantages of acting more calmly to our practical problems has more advantages no matter what the issue is. You will feel better (not miserable), because you feel better you are in a better position to make rational decisions and reach your goals. This does not mean you have to accept what has happened but rather if you respond more calmly to your situation then you are in a much better position to do something about it.


Rational Living Therapy & Stoic Philosophy
 
And what you learn as a grief counselor is that just about any response is "valid."

What remains so sad to me is somebody who's clearly very young and immature sitting in judgment in such a cruel and callous way.
 
Abnormal to you- not abnormal to everyone. Stoicism has existed formally since the Hellenistic period, as a philosophy. Much of that line of thought is normal to some people. Like every other response to grief, being stoic can cause problems of its own, but it's certainly not an abnormal response.

Thank you, lizzie.. you still have to cook and clean and go to work.. and look after the children.
 
Thank you, lizzie.. you still have to cook and clean and go to work.. and look after the children.

Yes, and to fail to do so, can have devastating consequences of its own. I know a woman who lost her teenage child about 20 years ago. She was so devastated, and could not move past the loss to keep on living, and ended up totally dependent and non-functional in a nursing home, with dementia to the point of complete withdrawal.
 
And what you learn as a grief counselor is that just about any response is "valid."

What remains so sad to me is somebody who's clearly very young and immature sitting in judgment in such a cruel and callous way.

It's remarkable that some would suggest a pattern of behavior as to how others should grieve for their loss. We all grieve in our own way. There is no correct procedure.
 
Yes, and to fail to do so, can have devastating consequences of its own. I know a woman who lost her teenage child about 20 years ago. She was so devastated, and could not move past the loss to keep on living, and ended up totally dependent and non-functional in a nursing home, with dementia to the point of complete withdrawal.

I lost my youngest brother to suicide in the summer of 2010.. I absolutely adored and admired him ...and he was a wonderful friend to me. I never saw it coming.. yet in retrospect he did give me hints.

Its been very difficult.. I still hear his voice speaking my name. He was my hip baby since I was 13 years older.

And I don't know why..

My life was richer for him..
 
Light bill has to be paid, pets have to be fed.... And sometimes the daily victory is just getting dressed and doing that.
 
Light bill has to be paid, pets have to be fed.... And sometimes the daily victory is just getting dressed and doing that.

Yeah.. and you owe it to the people who love you..

I am committed to being happy and participating. One of my sons called yesterday He's in SF and having a fine time as a best man for his best friend.. The grandaughters are dressed in pale organdies... You just have to do it.
 
I lost my youngest brother to suicide in the summer of 2010.. I absolutely adored and admired him ...and he was a wonderful friend to me. I never saw it coming.. yet in retrospect he did give me hints.Its been very difficult.. I still hear his voice speaking my name. He was my hip baby since I was 13 years older.

And I don't know why..

My life was richer for him..

Regarding the bolded:
I have been on both sides of the aisle. I've had a tremendous loss of three people in my life to suicide, and I've been to the point that I didn't want to live anymore. Fortunately, I was eventually able to resolve my issues which were overtaking my life and happiness. I can tell you with a fair amount of certainty, that your brother probably didn't understand why, nor want to hurt you or the other people who loved him. When you are in that state of mind, perceptions are skewed, and your ability to relate normally to those around you is all but gone. It's a state of mind that I can only call a living hell, and you can't see that there is light at the end of the tunnel. People who have this type of depression appear to be extremely sensitive, and are overwhelmed by the world of emotions. It feels like something that has no answer, and like it will never end, when your mind is there.
 
Pastor Warren has spoken of his son Matthew's great sensitivity. There are some too gentle to live among wolves, sigh, and from what little I've read so far, Matthew struggled with his mental health for many, many years.
 
I lost my youngest brother to suicide in the summer of 2010.. I absolutely adored and admired him ...and he was a wonderful friend to me. I never saw it coming.. yet in retrospect he did give me hints.

Its been very difficult.. I still hear his voice speaking my name. He was my hip baby since I was 13 years older.

And I don't know why..

My life was richer for him..

Another real tragedy, Sharon, and I am so genuinely sorry for your loss.

In retrospect we can see these 'hints' but all of us at one time or another express some dissatisfaction with the way our lives are going. Only when the worst occurs do we look at it differently but often this is only thinking of how you might have responded differently, something that might have been said or done, in order that this might never have happened. You are thus blaming yourself to some degree, and we both know you can't and shouldn't do that.

Depression is an illness and we are not trained on how to diagnose it or treat it but we do know that there is a level of greater awareness happening of this disease and perhaps earlier recognition and better treatment is on the way. Meanwhile we all suffer from it, in one way or another.

I get the feeling, and i certainly don't know, that this young man, Mathew Warren, shot himself in the head because that was the source of his pain and hurt, and that was the only way he could relieve it. It's something few of us will ever understand.
 
As for telling lies, people may just not know and I do not consider it deception unless it is done intentionally.

So it is just completely by accident they speak of a book they have not read?
As for Warren, I know little of his preachings as I have only seen him on interview shows. IIRC, he gave or is giving away all the $$$$ from his books to charity, particularly those helping in the third world. He just never struck me as a fire and brimstone kind of guy but I could be wrong.

He was probably a bit more reasonable than some of the extremes, but that doesn't mean he was compassionate or caring towards others. There is a difference between being better than a really big asshole and being good.
 
1) Psalm 90:12 says, " Teach us to number our days
so that we may truly live and achieve wisdom." another translation says, "Teach us to use wisely, all the time we have". another translation says " Teach us to realize how short our lives are.
Then our hearts will become wise." another translation says "Teach us to use wisely, all the time we have". (reading all of Psalm 90 in context, in a translation that numbers the lines differently), " Oh! Teach us to live well!
Teach us to live wisely and well!
Come back, God—how long do we have to wait?—
and treat your servants with kindness for a change.
Surprise us with love at daybreak;
then we’ll skip and dance all the day long.
Make up for the bad times with some good times;
we’ve seen enough evil to last a lifetime.
Let your servants see what you’re best at—
the ways you rule and bless your children.
And let the loveliness of our Lord, our God, rest on us,
confirming the work that we do.
Oh, yes. Affirm the work that we do!" ______________________________________________________________________________________________________________ 2) Psalm 90 is absolutely not related to suicide in any way. Taking one line out of context to pretend otherwise, is as deliberately false as the preacher who didn't like the trend of hairstyles, who quoted, instead of "Let he who is on the mountain top, not come off", as "Let he who is on the mountain, ....TOP KNOT COME OFF!!!" , ______________________________________________________________________________________________________________ 2) That was Moses speaking to God, neither God speaking to Moses nor God speaking through Moses. Psalm 90 is a prayer, from Moses to God. When we pray to God, God isn't telling us what to say, even when it's a prophet who's praying to God. God listens patiently when we pray to Him, He doesn't put words in our mouths when we talk to Him, even (especially) when it's someone specially assigned by God to speak for Him (a prophet). Certain prayers are included in the Bible because they are an excellent example of how to talk to God. Those prayers are not commands to humans, they are requests to God. Humans are certainly not commanded to obey comments that are not even directed at a human.

I did not take it out of context, I quoted his tweet where he did actually use suicide. Thank you for making bad excuses.
 
Ew.

Ew, ew, ew.

All this nastiness and politicizing and crap flinging is just disgusting.

These people just lost their child to an invisible disease that refused to respond to treatment. That is horrible.

I have no real love for the mega-church movement, and I don't particularly like most of the people involved with it, but these are people who just lost their son.

If you can't say something nice, just don't speak. This is not an opportunity for your hackish political catch phrases, and it's certainly not an opportunity for you to assign malice to people who just lost a child, simply because they informed the church of their loss. How cynical and conniving and gross.

Oh my god. Just... what is wrong with you people?
 
It's remarkable that some would suggest a pattern of behavior as to how others should grieve for their loss. We all grieve in our own way. There is no correct procedure.

And one of the terrible myths of parental bereavement is, "Thank goodness you have each other." Sometimes, this simply isn't true. One parent will be stoic, and the other will falsely see that partner as "not caring." Grief is uniquely experienced, and while it's a blessing when the burden can be shared, very often it just isn't.
 
Ew.

Ew, ew, ew.

All this nastiness and politicizing and crap flinging is just disgusting.

These people just lost their child to an invisible disease that refused to respond to treatment. That is horrible.

I have no real love for the mega-church movement, and I don't particularly like most of the people involved with it, but these are people who just lost their son.

If you can't say something nice, just don't speak. This is not an opportunity for your hackish political catch phrases, and it's certainly not an opportunity for you to assign malice to people who just lost a child, simply because they informed the church of their loss. How cynical and conniving and gross.

Oh my god. Just... what is wrong with you people?

Thank you for asking this question. I don't know the answer--how people can sit in judgment of an experience that they blessedly know nothing about or exploit instantly a partisan angle or whatever. These are two heartbroken parents and two siblings who are still in shock. The detachment and lack of compassion just stun me.
 
I did not take it out of context, I quoted his tweet where he did actually use suicide. Thank you for making bad excuses.

I didn't make any excuses, and I find your excuse amusing, particularly since no one accused you of taking anything out of context.
 
He was probably a bit more reasonable than some of the extremes, but that doesn't mean he was compassionate or caring towards others. There is a difference between being better than a really big asshole and being good.

Do you feel you are compassionate and caring towards others, Tererun?
 
So it is just completely by accident they speak of a book they have not read?

Based on the things you say about Christians I suspect you have not read it either, or at least not appreciated it. There are only 2 unforgivable sins listed in the Bible, and suicide isn't either of them.

He was probably a bit more reasonable than some of the extremes, but that doesn't mean he was compassionate or caring towards others. There is a difference between being better than a really big asshole and being good.

I really think you are letting your pro-gay agenda lead you astray. Everybody is not going to bend over backwards for your agenda or love you. That is just life--gay, straight, or other. Everybody is imperfect. If I were into the gay agenda though, I would be damned appreciative of someone spending millions of dollars they could have pocketed to fight HIV/AIDS whether they showed up to the Pride parade or not.
 
Well, I'm no Biblical scholar, so I Googled earlier. There are six mentions of suicide in the Bible, by which I mean six names are provided. I'd like to see any attributed commentary on the Bible's view of suicide.
 
A "real" parent suffering "real" grief about something "so terrible" WOULDN'T be able to issue press releases. Period.......................
Yeah man, because religious people ain't really people, they are emotionless robots sent here from a planet in another galaxy. They can't feel grief.
 
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