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Pastor Rick Warren's son commits suicide

What a shame that some are so eager to rush to judgment and to promote a political agenda out of this. It's not just the anti-gun people; there's an open letter at Daily Kos expressing the hope that Rick Warren will now use his personal tragedy to stop making "hateful" remarks to the LGBT community. Daily Kos: My Prayer for Rick Warren upon the suicide of his son, Matthew
 
Other methods like pills are often unsuccessful so my statement still stands. He would most likely be alive today if not for that gun.

Yes and are you going to cure his depression then? You're like one of those doctors who care sooo much about keeping someone technically alive and not at all about the underlying problem that would make the patient want to end his life in the first place. If he had taken a bunch of pills and survived, that would still suck terribly for all involved and done nothing to stop the suicidal thoughts.
 
And it doesn't take one to know that sleeping pills are less deadly than a bullet in the brain.

Matthew Warren suffered from lifelong depression, and he had decided to end it. A bullet in the brain is a most reliable method, but there are others, including carbon monoxide, which was the method of choice for one of my male friends. The point is that you're arguing here about the method when what seems clear was that this young man had decided to kill himself.
 
The Southern California church headed by popular evangelical Pastor Rick Warren says his 27-year-old son has committed suicide.

Warren's Saddleback Valley Community Church said in a statement that Matthew Warren had struggled with mental illness and deep depression throughout his life.

"Matthew was an incredibly kind, gentle and compassionate young man whose sweet spirit was encouragement and comfort to many," the statement said.

"Unfortunately, he also suffered from mental illness resulting in deep depression and suicidal thoughts. Despite the best health care available, this was an illness that was never fully controlled and the emotional pain resulted in his decision to take his life."

Read more: Pastor Rick Warren's son commits suicide | Fox News

Damn. Sorry to hear this.
 
Matthew Warren suffered from lifelong depression, and he had decided to end it. A bullet in the brain is a most reliable method, but there are others, including carbon monoxide, which was the method of choice for one of my male friends. The point is that you're arguing here about the method when what seems clear was that this young man had decided to kill himself.

While it is true that you can't stop at determined person from commiting suicide you can save many by limiting availability of guns.

The nine states that rank lowest in terms of gun prevalence are the very same nine that rank lowest for suicide rates. Similarly, the three states top-ranked for gun prevalence can be found among the four states ranking highest for suicide rates.
Why else would this be true?
Harvard School of Public Health » HSPH News » Gun prevalence and suicide rank by state
 
It's always devastating when someone so young dies with such a potential for life ahead of them and parents losing their children is just wrong. I hope his son is finally at peace since it sounds like he didn't have it when he was live. Yet, even as I say all of this, it's very hard for me to detach Rick Warren, the grieving father, from Rick Warren, the man who contributed to the mentalities that cause many gay youth to despair. I'm not sure what to do with that.
 
What a shame that some are so eager to rush to judgment and to promote a political agenda out of this. It's not just the anti-gun people; there's an open letter at Daily Kos expressing the hope that Rick Warren will now use his personal tragedy to stop making "hateful" remarks to the LGBT community. Daily Kos: My Prayer for Rick Warren upon the suicide of his son, Matthew

Whether he starts recognizing the effects his actions have of promoting the depression of GLBTs and their happiness in this world will be recognized by him remains to be seen. I personally wonder how an evangelical comes to terms with the fact his son committed a pretty powerful sin which will prevent his ascension into heaven according to their beliefs. The demonization of people with suicidal thoughts as potential sinners cannot help the situation when often those people cannot control those impulses and feelings. I imagine they are only trying to help by scaring a person away from an easy out, and considering one of his son's statements about ending the hell of his life so he can just go to heaven I guess you don't want to give them any excuses, but telling someone who feels broken that they are broken and damned for it doesn't help the situation as far as I can see.

Don't get me wrong, i actually do feel bad for him because it has to be hard to watch year after year with your child in so much pain they want to die, and having nothing that can stop it. It sounds like he really did try to find something to help and there was just nothing. I doubt his faith's hatred of suicide pushed the kid over the edge, but I also doubt it made his time any less painful.
 
Whether he starts recognizing the effects his actions have of promoting the depression of GLBTs and their happiness in this world will be recognized by him remains to be seen. I personally wonder how an evangelical comes to terms with the fact his son committed a pretty powerful sin which will prevent his ascension into heaven according to their beliefs. The demonization of people with suicidal thoughts as potential sinners cannot help the situation when often those people cannot control those impulses and feelings. I imagine they are only trying to help by scaring a person away from an easy out, and considering one of his son's statements about ending the hell of his life so he can just go to heaven I guess you don't want to give them any excuses, but telling someone who feels broken that they are broken and damned for it doesn't help the situation as far as I can see.

Don't get me wrong, i actually do feel bad for him because it has to be hard to watch year after year with your child in so much pain they want to die, and having nothing that can stop it. It sounds like he really did try to find something to help and there was just nothing. I doubt his faith's hatred of suicide pushed the kid over the edge, but I also doubt it made his time any less painful.


Suicides are recounted in the Bible without condemnation. That belief otherwise is a persistent inferred belief based upon the Thou shall not Kill Commandment in the same way the rapture is not supported in the Bible but persists in many people's thinking. My question for you is do you have sources saying Warren took all these positions you seem to think he has or are you just stereotyping him based upon his Evangelical alignment? He is not necessarily a conventional pastor from what little I know of him.
 
Or maybe I can see thru the "man of God"'s act......................

May I suggest you learn to reconnect the brain/mouth controller prior to leaving middle school. I am sure you will find that you will avoid getting beaten up far better in high school.
 
Suicides are recounted in the Bible without condemnation. That belief otherwise is a persistent inferred belief based upon the Thou shall not Kill Commandment in the same way the rapture is not supported in the Bible but persists in many people's thinking.

So you are saying all the christians who speak out against it based on the bible are liars? Not that i can disagree with the idea that christians often speak of things they know nothing about, but they do speak against it.
My question for you is do you have sources saying Warren took all these positions you seem to think he has or are you just stereotyping him based upon his Evangelical alignment? He is not necessarily a conventional pastor from what little I know of him.

As for the gay thing, yes he has taken up the fight against gays. He has supported many anti-gay causes including prop-8. Oh, and in casting sucide in a negative light we could go to his twitter page where he said “Killing time is suicide. Your time IS your life. "Teach us to number our days" Psalm 90:12.” That would certainly cast suicide in a negative light. But why should anyone take his tweets seriously.
 
So you are saying all the christians who speak out against it based on the bible are liars? Not that i can disagree with the idea that christians often speak of things they know nothing about, but they do speak against it.

I am saying the Bible does not expressly condemn suicide despite the opportunity to do so with suicides being recounted in the Bible. "Liars" is your word not mine.

As for the gay thing, yes he has taken up the fight against gays. He has supported many anti-gay causes including prop-8. Oh, and in casting sucide in a negative light we could go to his twitter page where he said “Killing time is suicide. Your time IS your life. "Teach us to number our days" Psalm 90:12.” That would certainly cast suicide in a negative light. But why should anyone take his tweets seriously.

I think you are stretching with that interpretation of his tweet you cite. He is a motivational writer/speaker too and sounds to me like he is trying to, you know, motivate people with that one.
 
I am saying the Bible does not expressly condemn suicide despite the opportunity to do so with suicides being recounted in the Bible. "Liars" is your word not mine.

So you are being polite by not calling them liars. that is cool, but it still would be making stuff up if you were correct. Also, the bible does take a very negative view on throwing god's greatest gift back in the creator's face. yes, it does also refer to killing people as a sin. I am just saying it is quite contradictory to take a demonizing view of suicide and then to be compassionate after the act is done. For those who really care you might want to be compassionate about it before the act. It is one of those things. After a person is dead it is too late for any of that to ease their suffering. Maybe Rick will use his position to start a good discussion about the way we treat the depressed. Only the future will tell that, but it does show a lack of personal empathy and compassion that it would take such a hard hit5 from a clue by four to bring an obvious point to his attention.


I think you are stretching with that interpretation of his tweet you cite. He is a motivational writer/speaker too and sounds to me like he is trying to, you know, motivate people with that one.

yes, and he portrays suicide in a negative light with that quote from the bible which also portrays suicide in a negative light which you claim is not biblical. 2 birds one stone. Perhaps you are telling us that suicide was meant in a positive tone in that quote and that we should waste out time and our lives, and that teaching us to number our days was said sarcastically because we should just let it go like suicide. Is that what you are telling us? If that is not what you are trying to say then my point stands.
 
It is sad that the "best health care available" did not include keeping a gun away from him. He would be alive to day if they just did that one thing.


That is hardly certain. Many people commit suicide by other means.
 
So you are being polite by not calling them liars. that is cool, but it still would be making stuff up if you were correct. Also, the bible does take a very negative view on throwing god's greatest gift back in the creator's face. yes, it does also refer to killing people as a sin. I am just saying it is quite contradictory to take a demonizing view of suicide and then to be compassionate after the act is done. For those who really care you might want to be compassionate about it before the act. It is one of those things. After a person is dead it is too late for any of that to ease their suffering. Maybe Rick will use his position to start a good discussion about the way we treat the depressed. Only the future will tell that, but it does show a lack of personal empathy and compassion that it would take such a hard hit5 from a clue by four to bring an obvious point to his attention.




yes, and he portrays suicide in a negative light with that quote from the bible which also portrays suicide in a negative light which you claim is not biblical. 2 birds one stone. Perhaps you are telling us that suicide was meant in a positive tone in that quote and that we should waste out time and our lives, and that teaching us to number our days was said sarcastically because we should just let it go like suicide. Is that what you are telling us? If that is not what you are trying to say then my point stands.

What does the Bible say about suicide?
 
So you are being polite by not calling them liars. that is cool, but it still would be making stuff up if you were correct. Also, the bible does take a very negative view on throwing god's greatest gift back in the creator's face. yes, it does also refer to killing people as a sin. I am just saying it is quite contradictory to take a demonizing view of suicide and then to be compassionate after the act is done. For those who really care you might want to be compassionate about it before the act. It is one of those things. After a person is dead it is too late for any of that to ease their suffering. Maybe Rick will use his position to start a good discussion about the way we treat the depressed. Only the future will tell that, but it does show a lack of personal empathy and compassion that it would take such a hard hit5 from a clue by four to bring an obvious point to his attention.




yes, and he portrays suicide in a negative light with that quote from the bible which also portrays suicide in a negative light which you claim is not biblical. 2 birds one stone. Perhaps you are telling us that suicide was meant in a positive tone in that quote and that we should waste out time and our lives, and that teaching us to number our days was said sarcastically because we should just let it go like suicide. Is that what you are telling us? If that is not what you are trying to say then my point stands.


As for telling lies, people may just not know and I do not consider it deception unless it is done intentionally. As for Warren, I know little of his preachings as I have only seen him on interview shows. IIRC, he gave or is giving away all the $$$$ from his books to charity, particularly those helping in the third world. He just never struck me as a fire and brimstone kind of guy but I could be wrong.
 
He's not a fire-and-brimstone preacher. Here he is discussing that attraction is not a sin with a most odious talking-head:

 
So you are saying all the christians who speak out against it based on the bible are liars? Not that i can disagree with the idea that christians often speak of things they know nothing about, but they do speak against it.


As for the gay thing, yes he has taken up the fight against gays. He has supported many anti-gay causes including prop-8. Oh, and in casting sucide in a negative light we could go to his twitter page where he said “Killing time is suicide. Your time IS your life. "Teach us to number our days" Psalm 90:12.” That would certainly cast suicide in a negative light. But why should anyone take his tweets seriously.

1) Psalm 90:12 says, " Teach us to number our days
so that we may truly live and achieve wisdom." another translation says, "Teach us to use wisely, all the time we have". another translation says " Teach us to realize how short our lives are.
Then our hearts will become wise." another translation says "Teach us to use wisely, all the time we have". (reading all of Psalm 90 in context, in a translation that numbers the lines differently), " Oh! Teach us to live well!
Teach us to live wisely and well!
Come back, God—how long do we have to wait?—
and treat your servants with kindness for a change.
Surprise us with love at daybreak;
then we’ll skip and dance all the day long.
Make up for the bad times with some good times;
we’ve seen enough evil to last a lifetime.
Let your servants see what you’re best at—
the ways you rule and bless your children.
And let the loveliness of our Lord, our God, rest on us,
confirming the work that we do.
Oh, yes. Affirm the work that we do!" ______________________________________________________________________________________________________________ 2) Psalm 90 is absolutely not related to suicide in any way. Taking one line out of context to pretend otherwise, is as deliberately false as the preacher who didn't like the trend of hairstyles, who quoted, instead of "Let he who is on the mountain top, not come off", as "Let he who is on the mountain, ....TOP KNOT COME OFF!!!" , ______________________________________________________________________________________________________________ 2) That was Moses speaking to God, neither God speaking to Moses nor God speaking through Moses. Psalm 90 is a prayer, from Moses to God. When we pray to God, God isn't telling us what to say, even when it's a prophet who's praying to God. God listens patiently when we pray to Him, He doesn't put words in our mouths when we talk to Him, even (especially) when it's someone specially assigned by God to speak for Him (a prophet). Certain prayers are included in the Bible because they are an excellent example of how to talk to God. Those prayers are not commands to humans, they are requests to God. Humans are certainly not commanded to obey comments that are not even directed at a human.
 
Let me tell you what it's like to grow up in an extremely religious household and realixzing at the age of 5 that you didn't believe in god and then covering up by trying to act religious because you can't stand letting your parents down. Faking it. Bored and faking it. Ashamed really.

It's enough to make you suicidal. I barely missed. I ran away instead.

This is information, not a position on anything. I can only suspect and surmise what the issue was. I don't KNOW anything.
 
He's not a fire-and-brimstone preacher. Here he is discussing that attraction is not a sin with a most odious talking-head:


It doesn't matter how nicely you say that gay people are inferior or how nicely you compare same-sex relationships to adultery, you're still saying the same thing,
 
And it doesn't take one to know that sleeping pills are less deadly than a bullet in the brain.

Suicide by sleeping pills causes the exact same end as a bullet in the brain......

**Logic 101**

OR

Time to ban sleeping pills.
 
Suicide by sleeping pills causes the exact same end as a bullet in the brain......

**Logic 101**

nahh. Sleeping pills usually do not make the floors and walls all bloody in the end.
 
nahh. Sleeping pills usually do not make the floors and walls all bloody in the end.

creates jobs for cleaning specialists
 
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