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Thread: Pastor Rick Warren's son commits suicide

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    Re: Pastor Rick Warren's son commits suicide

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Many of us have an interest in suicide prevention, rather than just saying its tragic but we shouldn't talk about how it happened.
    How it happened is of no matter at all, and you will never understand this.

    It is WHY it happened that is important, and I doubt you will understand that either.

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    Re: Pastor Rick Warren's son commits suicide

    Quote Originally Posted by Kreton View Post
    What questions are really going to matter? Seriously.

    Are you planning a mass murder?
    Are you suicidal?

    No one planning a mass murder is going to say yes to that. No one who wants to kill themselves is going to say yes. That is pretty common sense. In all honestly a background check is just about all you can do. Anything more than that is pointless.
    In the real world, people who are suicidal will often tell you. the problem is, nobody asks. I can think of at least six who have told me so.
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    Re: Pastor Rick Warren's son commits suicide

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    How it happened is of no matter at all, and you will never understand this.

    It is WHY it happened that is important, and I doubt you will understand that either.

    Thanks for your unsubstantiated opinion there Mr. anonymous internet poster! I'll go with the studies by the National Institute of Mental Health.
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    Re: Pastor Rick Warren's son commits suicide

    Quote Originally Posted by Kreton View Post
    Should they not be allowed to vote? Marry? Drive a car? Be outside after dark?

    Yes actions have consequences, but that should be the end of it. Not every crime should be a life long sentence. If a man gets convicted of a felony and a judge sentences him to 10 years, after 10 years it should be over. That is a consequence. Holding it over their head long after their punishment ends is just dumb.

    No, because I am not the one who kills them. Are you willing to take on the liability if someone without a criminal record buys a gun and does it? Gets high and does it? Gets drunk? Does it with another means? That is not a very good question to be honest.
    Why? Where is the public support for your strawman? 90% of Americans and 85% of gun owners do not believe we should sell guns to those with violent backgrounds. Only the far right oppose background checks.
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    Re: Pastor Rick Warren's son commits suicide

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Suicide in the U.S.: Statistics and Prevention

    What should I do if I think someone is suicidal?

    "If you think someone is suicidal, do not leave him or her alone. Try to get the person to seek immediate help from his or her doctor or the nearest hospital emergency room, or call 911. Eliminate access to firearms or other potential tools for suicide, including unsupervised access to medications."

    "Suicide by: Males (%) Females (%)
    Firearms 56 30
    Suffocation 24 21
    Poisoning 13 40"

    NIMH · Suicide in the U.S.: Statistics and Prevention
    OK, I would have no problem removing a gun from the immediate vicinity of a person I knew to be suicidal. But unless I kept the person under a constant state of vigilance I most likely would not be able to prevent his suicide if he were determined to kill himself. Any simple object would suffice, as I can attest to personally in the case of my father and the six-foot piece of nylon cord he fashioned into a ligature. (The key point is we didn't know at the time he was suicidal.) But to assume that removing guns from the broader society would reduce the suicide rate is a leap of faith, not science. Otherwise, how can one explain the fact that gun-phobic South Korea has a suicide rate more than 2.5 times that of the gun-crazy U.S.? If someone really wants to kill himself, even on impulse, instead of make a point or impress his friends with a cry for help he can do it very effectively without a gun.
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    Re: Pastor Rick Warren's son commits suicide

    Quote Originally Posted by Ahlevah View Post
    OK, I would have no problem removing a gun from the immediate vicinity of a person I knew to be suicidal. But unless I kept the person under a constant state of vigilance I most likely would not be able to prevent his suicide if he were determined to kill himself. Any simple object would suffice, as I can attest to personally in the case of my father and the six-foot piece of nylon cord he fashioned into a ligature. (The key point is we didn't know at the time he was suicidal.) But to assume that removing guns from the broader society would reduce the suicide rate is a leap of faith, not science. Otherwise, how can one explain the fact that gun-phobic South Korea has a suicide rate more than 2.5 times that of the gun-crazy U.S.? If someone really wants to kill himself, even on impulse, instead of make a point or impress his friends with a cry for help he can do it very effectively without a gun.

    From the OP- "Unfortunately, he also suffered from mental illness resulting in deep depression and suicidal thoughts." - Rick Warren

    "If you think someone is suicidal, do not leave him or her alone. Try to get the person to seek immediate help from his or her doctor or the nearest hospital emergency room, or call 911. Eliminate access to firearms or other potential tools for suicide, including unsupervised access to medications."

    NIMH · Suicide in the U.S.: Statistics and Prevention
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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    Re: Pastor Rick Warren's son commits suicide

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Why? Where is the public support for your strawman? 90% of Americans and 85% of gun owners do not believe we should sell guns to those with violent backgrounds. Only the far right oppose background checks.
    There is no strawman. Simple question to you. Do you feel like people who have completed the sentence for a crime committed in the past should continue to be punished for the rest of their lives?

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    Re: Pastor Rick Warren's son commits suicide

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post

    "If you think someone is suicidal, do not leave him or her alone. Try to get the person to seek immediate help from his or her doctor or the nearest hospital emergency room, or call 911. Eliminate access to firearms or other potential tools for suicide, including unsupervised access to medications."

    NIMH · Suicide in the U.S.: Statistics and Prevention
    Clearly this was not written for people who have been battling suicidal thoughts their entire life, it seems to be more of a guide for when you first recognize them. Are you saying they shouldn't have ever left him alone, and that they should have sought immediate help or called 911 daily?

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    Re: Pastor Rick Warren's son commits suicide

    Quote Originally Posted by Pilot View Post
    Clearly this was not written for people who have been battling suicidal thoughts their entire life, it seems to be more of a guide for when you first recognize them. Are you saying they shouldn't have ever left him alone, and that they should have sought immediate help or called 911 daily?

    The National Institute of Mental Health is saying: "Eliminate access to firearms or other potential tools for suicide, including unsupervised access to medications."

    Would you leave a gun around a son with "severe depression and suicidal thoughts"?
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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    Re: Pastor Rick Warren's son commits suicide

    Quote Originally Posted by Pilot View Post
    Clearly this was not written for people who have been battling suicidal thoughts their entire life, it seems to be more of a guide for when you first recognize them. Are you saying they shouldn't have ever left him alone, and that they should have sought immediate help or called 911 daily?
    That was the sense I got from the NIMH literature. The mention of an ER conjures up an immediate threat, as in "I want to kill myself NOW." But for some people who've lived with mental illness and suicidal thoughts their entire lives, unless you're prepared to lock them up in padded rooms indefinitely and take away their shoelaces and nail clippers, keeping them alive could prove to be problematic.
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