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Thread: Judge strikes age restrictions for "morning after" pill

  1. #161
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    Re: Judge strikes age restrictions for "morning after" pill

    What sort of individual concerns themselves with the intimate details of their grandchildren's sexual experiences?
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    Re: Judge strikes age restrictions for "morning after" pill

    Quote Originally Posted by joko104 View Post
    I have a bad feeling about this one.

    My concern is someone else putting it in a woman's food to cause losing a ZEF she wants or to prevent pregnancy to begin with - her not even knowing. People not only can go crazy to try to prevent an abortion, other people also can go crazy trying to terminate someone else's pregnancy.

    I'd prefer it be 1.) be behind the counter and 2.) limited to sales to females and 3.) a record kept of anyone who buys it.

    There also needs to be INTENSELY harsh laws passed about giving this to someone without the person's knowledge. Some men and some parents totally freak out learning their girlfriend, mistress or daughter is pregnant. I see potential problems. A women likely wouldn't even known why she lost the ZEF thinking it just a miscarriage. In regards to ZEFs, its like selling cyanide pills OTC. Just slip one to any woman and end a pregnancy she wants, but you don't, in the learn stage. Or even routinely without her knowledge to avoid it happening in the first place. There also is the question of what happens if someone takes a lot of them or slips someone a lot of them at the same time.

    For those reasons I'm not fond of that ruling. Those all are not only very legitimate health concerns, but also assault concerns.
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    Re: Judge strikes age restrictions for "morning after" pill

    Quote Originally Posted by minnie616 View Post
    Wow ...just wow...
    Nothing like putting words in my mouth I never said.

    My post was only facts about how Plan B works.

    You have a right to your own opinion but you do have a right to make up a scenario and accuse me of promoting promiscuity in a 13 old girl.

    Stepping off my soapbox now...
    There is a tendency on the right to view everything through a moral lens. Therefore, a 13 year old child can not be merely ignorant; she must have little self respect. A wanting to prevent a child from getting pregnant means that you are promoting promiscuity
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  4. #164
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    Re: Judge strikes age restrictions for "morning after" pill

    Quote Originally Posted by Manc Skipper View Post
    What sort of individual concerns themselves with the intimate details of their grandchildren's sexual experiences?
    A grandparent who loves their grandchildren and wishes to hand down some wisdom.
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    Re: Judge strikes age restrictions for "morning after" pill

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    The time for teaching their child about sex has passed
    Then I suggest you avoid being a mentor in a child's life. Any time you can teach a child to have a more responsible sex life is good. Some may take time and many mistakes, but it is wrong to just say you can't teach them just because of one mistake or just because they are having sex.


    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    You are contradicting yourself. On one hand, you say that even kids who just had unprotected sex won't rush to get it, and at the same time argue that all the kids are going to be using it regularly.

    And MAPs aren't a temporary band aid. They prevent a pregnancy. Prevented pregnancies don't come back.

    As far as sex ed goes, no parent is prevented from teaching their child about it. If they need to hear that their child bought Plan B in order to get their ass in gear, then they're not really being responsible themselves.
    I'm saying that they don't leave all upset in a hurry just to rush to get Plan B if they think they have at least a day or 3. But along with that, if they make that first one, no pregnancy, then they begin to trust that Plan B will work for them and it is more convenient than other forms of birth control. It isn't a contradiction, but an observation of how many humans act/think. Convenience is enticing to many young people, especially when it is connected to saving their butts from something they fear, like pregnancy. Unfortunately, Plan B is not affordable to most teens, particularly on a regular basis, but teens won't consider this fact for the most part because they are in fact teenagers.

    You are missing the point completely. No one is perfect. They can't know that they didn't do a good job at teaching their children about sex if their teen is able to hide potential problems because of the convenience of purchasing emergency birth control. Parents aren't mind readers and children do not come with instruction books, such as "how to talk to your child about sex in a way that they will never have unprotected sex that could lead to pregnancy or diseases". That isn't how parenting works.
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  6. #166
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    Re: Judge strikes age restrictions for "morning after" pill

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    Except there is no proof that this action will lead to fewer unwanted children or teenage mothers.
    lol really? I would think that since its proven to work, every single pill taken represents a potentially unwanted child that will never be born. If one fertilized woman takes it for its desired purpose, how does that not instantly mean fewer (by one at least) unwanted children?

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    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    Princeton University states:

    "But making ECPs (like Plan B) more easily available has not yet resulted in a decrease in unintended pregnancies in any population, because women do not use EC every time they have sex" (I think this is also from the Plan B website)

    Emergency Contraception: Plan B
    Just because someone has an unwanted child later doesn't change the fact that they don't have one now. Besides, Plan B is only now becoming readily available...
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    Re: Judge strikes age restrictions for "morning after" pill

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    There is a tendency on the right to view everything through a moral lens. Therefore, a 13 year old child can not be merely ignorant; she must have little self respect. A wanting to prevent a child from getting pregnant means that you are promoting promiscuity
    I don't even think "moral" is the right word. I would say "punitive". If something bad happens, conservatives first impulse is to blame and punish somebody instead of trying to solve the problem.

    What's really happening in the Plan B debate in the minds of conservatives is something like: the girl had teen sex, so let's punish her by forcing her to have the child. That'll teach her!.

    They overlay that with moralizing about abortion (totally bogus since Plan B isn't an abortion pill) and the end of America due to declining values. But the real point is for conservatives -- let's punish the girl!

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    Re: Judge strikes age restrictions for "morning after" pill

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    Then I suggest you avoid being a mentor in a child's life. Any time you can teach a child to have a more responsible sex life is good. Some may take time and many mistakes, but it is wrong to just say you can't teach them just because of one mistake or just because they are having sex.
    Which is why I never said that you can't teach them because of one mistake. What I did say is that the time should not be used as an excuse to delay or prevent the child from preventing a pregnancy.


    I'm saying that they don't leave all upset in a hurry just to rush to get Plan B if they think they have at least a day or 3. But along with that, if they make that first one, no pregnancy, then they begin to trust that Plan B will work for them and it is more convenient than other forms of birth control. It isn't a contradiction, but an observation of how many humans act/think. Convenience is enticing to many young people, especially when it is connected to saving their butts from something they fear, like pregnancy. Unfortunately, Plan B is not affordable to most teens, particularly on a regular basis, but teens won't consider this fact for the most part because they are in fact teenagers.

    You are missing the point completely. No one is perfect. They can't know that they didn't do a good job at teaching their children about sex if their teen is able to hide potential problems because of the convenience of purchasing emergency birth control. Parents aren't mind readers and children do not come with instruction books, such as "how to talk to your child about sex in a way that they will never have unprotected sex that could lead to pregnancy or diseases". That isn't how parenting works.
    Actually, there is little to no evidence that the regular use of Plan B instead of more appropriate forms of BC will result from this, and as you point out, it's not economically feasible for teens.

    Part of doing a good job as a parent is gaining the trust and respect of your child so if and when they get in trouble, they come to you (or at least some other adult). In my family, we make it clear that they can come to us for help *and* support, and that while we don't approve of mistakes, we will help them deal with it. Parenting is about more than just dispending information.
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    Re: Judge strikes age restrictions for "morning after" pill

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    Yeah, I think that would probably be best.

    And aspirin probably wasn't the best analogy, but the fact is, just about every drug can be dangerous for some people. It's just that those drugs are not related to sex.
    And hence the real fundie agenda here. Don't the conservatives blather endlessly about deregulating the FDA and allowing drug compaines to get products on the market without complete testing? It's one of their favorite talking points. I guess it only applies to drugs that don't involve women having control of their reproduction. That's going too far for the Palin types.

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    Re: Judge strikes age restrictions for "morning after" pill

    Quote Originally Posted by minnie616 View Post
    Wow ...just wow...
    Nothing like putting words in my mouth I never said.

    My post was only facts about how Plan B works.

    You have a right to your own opinion but you do have a right to make up a scenario and accuse me of promoting promiscuity in a 13 old girl.

    Stepping off my soapbox now...
    It's how the conservative mind works: confronted with facts that countradict their vapid memes, they counterattack and shout, forget the facts, you're promoting immorality.

    And we are back to the endless conservative loop. It's promotes immorality to educate kids about sex, and when these uneducated kids have sex, it promotes immorality to help them avoid pregnancies with Plan B. And thus they can continue to bemoan the state of morality in the US unhindered by a coherent way to do something about it.

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