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Thread: Cancer clinics are turning away thousands of Medicare patients. Blame the sequester.

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    Re: Cancer clinics are turning away thousands of Medicare patients. Blame the sequest

    Quote Originally Posted by OpportunityCost View Post
    Link 1 states that economic growth was negative in the first quarter when Bush entered office. I guess that would make it true.

    Link 2. I agree Bush's spending was a huge problem. 9/11 had a lot to do with why we went to war. I believe it was neccessary. I dont think we will reach agreement on this. Original article rather than stupid blog crap not worth linking to because its partisan drivel:
    White House projects record deficit for 2009 - CNN.com

    Link 3 gvies the original link as a Houston Chronicle article and is a dead link. However, Clinton's reticence for enforcing sanctions and and inability to ensure technology embargoes was fairly well known and could not have helped matters.

    Link 4 Dude. BUSH WASNT IN OFFICE YET! June 23, 2000? Bush was placing blame on the guy in office at the time, why the hell would Bush take blame when he wasnt President yet. Nice self own there.
    It wasn't a self own. It was all you.

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    Re: Cancer clinics are turning away thousands of Medicare patients. Blame the sequest

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Yes, they are. On that we agree.
    and btw, i'd say the op that started this thread was a great PR story for the obama team.

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    Re: Cancer clinics are turning away thousands of Medicare patients. Blame the sequest

    Quote Originally Posted by mtm1963 View Post
    and btw, i'd say the op that started this thread was a great PR story for the obama team.
    **** happens. It will take a life of its own sooner or later.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Cancer clinics are turning away thousands of Medicare patients. Blame the sequest

    Quote Originally Posted by mtm1963 View Post
    if the medicare cut is 2-3%, then why are they cutting 33% of their medicare patients?
    Because the cut is focused on the reimbursement schedule, which makes those patients impossible to treat at cost.

    As an example, let us say that one of these cancer treatments costs the doctor $60 per dose, and that it then costs him $20 to store and another $20 to process the patient, the administration, and disperse the medication. Medicare just cut the reimbursement for this medication from $100 (allowing him a 1 dollar profit) to $95 (forcing him to take a loss); meaning that he can no longer afford to purchase, store, and disperse this medication to the patients who need it.

    This is precisely what was predicted would happen when we cut the reimbursement schedule. Supporters poo-poo'd the notion, insisting that providers would be able to endlessly, magically, produce medical care at lower costs; that the rules of supply and demand somehow fantastically did not apply to medicine. You recall Democrats insisting that evil Republicans cut medicare for patients, but that they just cut Medicare for providers? and that these were somehow not the same thing?

    They were wrong. And this is just the beginning

    But think about it, if the clinic could still see Medicare Patients at a profit, then why would they turn out free money, and send that to their competition? That's like arguing that McDonalds should stop selling Hamburgers because its' profit margin is so much higher on its' drinks.

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    Re: Cancer clinics are turning away thousands of Medicare patients. Blame the sequest

    Quote Originally Posted by mtm1963 View Post
    that's what this company seems to be doing when it comes to their medicare patients and are using the sequester as an excuse to do so.
    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Yes, they are. On that we agree.
    What blithering nut-jobbery. Medical clinics go into business to screw medicare patients? When the Federal Government is 50 cents of every medical dollar spent?

    Yeah. And Wal-Mart is in business to help prop up the Mom and Pops. Microsoft wants to convince everyone to unplug and go live a natural life unencumbered by electricity.

    Conspiracy claims ("Evil-doin medical docter folks are all out to git the Medicare patients!") ill-become the both of you.

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    Re: Cancer clinics are turning away thousands of Medicare patients. Blame the sequest

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    What blithering nut-jobbery. Medical clinics go into business to screw medicare patients? When the Federal Government is 50 cents of every medical dollar spent?

    Yeah. And Wal-Mart is in business to help prop up the Mom and Pops. Microsoft wants to convince everyone to unplug and go live a natural life unencumbered by electricity.

    Conspiracy claims ("Evil-doin medical docter folks are all out to git the Medicare patients!") ill-become the both of you.
    Again, illness is not a commodity. Your child's life isn't some you negotiate. And stop with the hyperbole. No one called doctors evil. The system is just messed up. Seeing the care of the ill as a business is flawed to start with. Even if doctors made only what Medicare paid for all their patients, they would still do so well as to justify going into the field.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Cancer clinics are turning away thousands of Medicare patients. Blame the sequest

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Again, illness is not a commodity.
    That's correct. Health Care is a good or service. The illness itself is not.

    Your child's life isn't some you negotiate. And stop with the hyperbole.
    I find it really entertaining that you apparently do not see the irony with putting these two sentences back to back.

    No one called doctors evil.
    No, they simply suggested that doctors were looking for a way to screw over old people, and willing to take any excuse available to do so. So not that they were evil, simply that they did evil - a sentiment which you, to your embarrassment, agreed with.

    The system is just messed up.
    The system is imperfect, largely due to our over-reliance on third party payment mechanisms which introduce needless amounts of complexity and remove incentives to improve our delivery processes.

    Seeing the care of the ill as a business is flawed to start with.
    Why? What is wrong with wanting to cure the sick, heal the lame, or tend to the wounded for a living?

    Even if doctors made only what Medicare paid for all their patients, they would still do so well as to justify going into the field.
    Wrong. Doctors come into their fields with massive student loans and then spend massive amounts on administrative costs and malpractice insurance. One of my college roomates had a father who was an OB-GYN. He quit medicine when malpractice costs for his state rose to $250,000 a year. A clinic in Tennessee near where I used to live refuses to take insurance (third party payments), government or otherwise, and instead deals directly with the patient for cash. The cost of their procedures is 1/2 to 1/3 what it costs at other facilities, just based off of the removal of the paperwork alone. Medicares' reduced payment schedule means that doctors increasingly cannot afford to see Medicare patients - the same thing has been happening in Medicaid for some time. For a long time, providers have made up some of the losses by charging the rest of us more; but for the medicines that are overwhelmingly purchased by the elderly, and thus under the reduced schedules? That's not an option.

    Welcome to the Brave New World, Boo, where Obamacares' Free Lunch fails to materialize and the elderly pay the heaviest price for our desire to stamp our feet and insist that we can ignore reality when we find it inconvenient.

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    Re: Cancer clinics are turning away thousands of Medicare patients. Blame the sequest

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    That's correct. Health Care is a good or service. The illness itself is not.



    I find it really entertaining that you apparently do not see the irony with putting these two sentences back to back.



    No, they simply suggested that doctors were looking for a way to screw over old people, and willing to take any excuse available to do so. So not that they were evil, simply that they did evil - a sentiment which you, to your embarrassment, agreed with.



    The system is imperfect, largely due to our over-reliance on third party payment mechanisms which introduce needless amounts of complexity and remove incentives to improve our delivery processes.



    Why? What is wrong with wanting to cure the sick, heal the lame, or tend to the wounded for a living?



    Wrong. Doctors come into their fields with massive student loans and then spend massive amounts on administrative costs and malpractice insurance. One of my college roomates had a father who was an OB-GYN. He quit medicine when malpractice costs for his state rose to $250,000 a year. A clinic in Tennessee near where I used to live refuses to take insurance (third party payments), government or otherwise, and instead deals directly with the patient for cash. The cost of their procedures is 1/2 to 1/3 what it costs at other facilities, just based off of the removal of the paperwork alone. Medicares' reduced payment schedule means that doctors increasingly cannot afford to see Medicare patients - the same thing has been happening in Medicaid for some time. For a long time, providers have made up some of the losses by charging the rest of us more; but for the medicines that are overwhelmingly purchased by the elderly, and thus under the reduced schedules? That's not an option.

    Welcome to the Brave New World, Boo, where Obamacares' Free Lunch fails to materialize and the elderly pay the heaviest price for our desire to stamp our feet and insist that we can ignore reality when we find it inconvenient.
    At best we suggested one company, not all doctors. Their excuse doesn't hold, so yes, that company, a very specific company I putting profit above care, which is screwing them.

    And no where did I deny doctors had student loans. That doesn't change what I said. They could still pay those loans and live very, very well on Medicare pay. No one is asking them to live anything but well.

    Btw, ob gyn and peds are problem areas, but they don't make up all doctors. You should acknowledge that you're using the extreme to try and resent the whole.

    The rest you write is largely nonsense. Current healthcare reform is not what anyone wants, but is was modeled after republican ideas (a mistake), and UHC would be a much better option for a lot of reasons.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Cancer clinics are turning away thousands of Medicare patients. Blame the sequest

    Why do you waste other people's time of you don't read your own links?
    Your first link was correct in that Bush said he inherited a slowed economy from Bill Clinton. He then went on to turn it around.

    Your second link is to someone else, your third link is to someone else and your fourth link is from a presidential candidate.

    As for the two of you who actually 'like' this, can neither of you read coherently either? You should be embarrassed for yourselves.

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    Re: Cancer clinics are turning away thousands of Medicare patients. Blame the sequest

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    At best we suggested one company, not all doctors. Their excuse doesn't hold, so yes, that company, a very specific company I putting profit above care, which is screwing them.
    That is not at all what was charged. What was charged was that they were looking for ways to screw over Medicare patients and using sequestration as an excuse to do so. That these patients, were, in fact, still profitable, and that the companies in question were willing to A) lie about that and B) give up their own profits, apparently just so that they could then have the pleasure of denying care to Medicare patients. Utter horse-hockey.

    As for profit - without profit, clinics cannot serve 3/3rds of patients. Doctors know enough math to realize that if you can still serve 2/3rds, that is more than 0/3rds, an insight that appears to have escaped (or, more likely, simply been been refused by) some on this thread.

    And no where did I deny doctors had student loans. That doesn't change what I said. They could still pay those loans and live very, very well on Medicare pay. No one is asking them to live anything but well.

    Btw, ob gyn and peds are problem areas, but they don't make up all doctors. You should acknowledge that you're using the extreme to try and resent the whole.
    Malpractice and administrative costs are and remain huge. I would agree that OB-GYN's are probably among the most expensive to ensure, but that was the one example I had seen first-hand. The point remains the same. If a Doctor is "profiting" $330K a year, but $125K goes to malpractice, $100K goes to administrative costs, and $20K goes to student loans, then he's actually only bringing in $85K a year. Cut his "profit" by a third (as in the example under discussion) to $220K a year, and he's in quite a pickle.

    The refusal on the part of those who wish to simply cut reimbursement schedules to accept that doctors do not have a magic pile of never-ending money from which they can make good the resultant losses of providing care is now starting to prove disastrous for our elderly. There is, never has been, and never will be, such a thing as a free lunch, and when we make plans which assume its' appearance, we shouldn't be surprised when those plans go badly. This loss of coverage was entirely predictable, and thus widely predicted.

    The rest you write is largely nonsense. Current healthcare reform is not what anyone wants
    Really? You may want to write the Administration about that. They seemed quite interested in getting it passed, oh, a couple of years back. Bragged about all the awesome things it would do (nobody who liked their insurance would lose it, premiums would go down by $2500 for a family, thousands of jobs would be created, et. al.)

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