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U.S. Adds Only 88,000 Jobs; Jobless Rate Falls to 7.6%[W: 831]

Re: U.S. Adds Only 88,000 Jobs; Jobless Rate Falls to 7.6%

Conservative said:
If the stimulus had worked we would be in full recovery today and the numbers wouldn't be what they are. 500,000 people dropped out of the labor force last month.

There are 143 million working Americans today with a 155million labor force whereas before the recession began and almost 7 trillion less in debt there wre 146 million working Americans with 153.9 million labor force.
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This is a personal opinion and nothing more. You'll excuse me if I once again defer to actual analysis on the bill itself.

This is, once again, a completely useless comparison. You're including over a year worth of job losses totaling roughly 6 million that occurred before the bill was even passed, let alone fully implemented. Useless junk.
 
Re: U.S. Adds Only 88,000 Jobs; Jobless Rate Falls to 7.6%

a351 said:
This is a personal opinion and nothing more. You'll excuse me if I once again defer to actual analysis on the bill itself.

This is, once again, a completely useless comparison. You're including over a year worth of job losses totaling roughly 6 million that occurred before the bill was even passed, let alone fully implemented. Useless junk.
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The numbers generated aren't a personal opinion they are fact, but maybe this will help you understand better what happened with the stimulus and Obama himself said that there is no such thing as shovel ready jobs. Stop defending the indefensible

Review & Outlook:Why the Stimulus Failed - WSJ.com
 
Re: U.S. Adds Only 88,000 Jobs; Jobless Rate Falls to 7.6%

a351 said:
This is a personal opinion and nothing more. You'll excuse me if I once again defer to actual analysis on the bill itself.

This is, once again, a completely useless comparison. You're including over a year worth of job losses totaling roughly 6 million that occurred before the bill was even passed, let alone fully implemented. Useless junk.
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Obama took over an economy that was coming out of recession not going into one. His very poor leadership and delegation of responsibility shows what a true failure he is.
 
Re: U.S. Adds Only 88,000 Jobs; Jobless Rate Falls to 7.6%

Conservative said:
The numbers generated aren't a personal opinion they are fact, but maybe this will help you understand better what happened with the stimulus and Obama himself said that there is no such thing as shovel ready jobs. Stop defending the indefensible
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For the numerous time, the numbers generated are not in question, your REASONING behind those number is what is in question. What is it about conservatism that creates this lack of analytical effort?
 
Re: U.S. Adds Only 88,000 Jobs; Jobless Rate Falls to 7.6%

Conservative said:
The numbers generated aren't a personal opinion they are fact

but maybe this will help you understand better what happened with the stimulus and Obama himself said that there is no such thing as shovel ready jobs. Stop defending the indefensible

Review & Outlook:Why the Stimulus Failed - WSJ.com
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As is your complete butchering of simple timelines. Including job losses that happened in the year prior to the ARRA in your analysis of the ARRA is symbolic of either outright incompetency or brazen dishonesty. Take your pick.

This is an opinion piece.There doesn't appear to be much in the way of macro-analysis whatsoever.
 
Re: U.S. Adds Only 88,000 Jobs; Jobless Rate Falls to 7.6%

TheNextEra said:
For the numerous time, the numbers generated are not in question, your REASONING behind those number is what is in question. What is it about conservatism that creates this lack of analytical effort?
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Unlike you I Understand the responsibilities of leadership and where the blame falls for the numbers generated. That is sound reasoning that you don't understand.
 
Re: U.S. Adds Only 88,000 Jobs; Jobless Rate Falls to 7.6%

a351 said:
As is your complete butchering of simple timelines. Including job losses that happened in the year prior to the ARRA in your analysis of the ARRA is symbolic of either outright incompetency or brazen dishonesty. Take your pick.

This is an opinion piece.There doesn't appear to be much in the way of macro-analysis whatsoever.
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What is it going to take for you to accept responsibility for Obama's failures. The numbers are there for all to see but you choose not to pay any attention to them. I have posted before the goals of ARRA so please tell me why YOU believe it was a success. The claim of saving jobs, how do you define a saved job? Does it make any sense for you to spend 842 billion dollars and generate the numbers he generated a year after ARRA? what is it in that Opinion piece that is wrong? There are many opinions including everything you post which you are entitled to post however factually your information is false.
 
Re: U.S. Adds Only 88,000 Jobs; Jobless Rate Falls to 7.6%

Conservative said:
Unlike you I Understand the responsibilities of leadership and where the blame falls for the numbers generated. That is sound reasoning that you don't understand.
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Yeah, that's why you voted for Bush twice. Your credibility was lost long ago and you couldn't tell leadership if it slapped you in the face. You only care if there is a presient with an R in front of his name. And don't give the BS that you voted for past Dem presidents, we are talking now and your critical thinking was lost decades ago.
 
Re: U.S. Adds Only 88,000 Jobs; Jobless Rate Falls to 7.6%

TheNextEra said:
Yeah, that's why you voted for Bush twice. Your credibility was lost long ago and you couldn't tell leadership if it slapped you in the face. You only care if there is a presient with an R in front of his name. And don't give the BS that you voted for past Dem presidents, we are talking now and your critical thinking was lost decades ago.
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My logic for voting for Bush is sound, the choice was Gore and Kerry and the results in 2004 warranted four more years, results you want to ignore.
 
Re: U.S. Adds Only 88,000 Jobs; Jobless Rate Falls to 7.6%

Conservative said:
My logic for voting for Bush is sound, the choice was Gore and Kerry and the results in 2004 warranted four more years, results you want to ignore.
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Your opinion noted as well as your partisan behavior. My point stands you wouldn't know leadership if it slapped you in the face. You want to ignore the results and continue to vote for the R regardless of what the person does.

What is it about conservatism that creates lack of thinking?
 
Re: U.S. Adds Only 88,000 Jobs; Jobless Rate Falls to 7.6%

TheNextEra said:
Your opinion noted as well as your partisan behavior. My point stands you wouldn't know leadership if it slapped you in the face. You want to ignore the results and continue to vote for the R regardless of what the person does.

What is it about conservatism that creates lack of thinking?
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Well then nothing more to add since your mind is made up. The true partisan here is you. I criticized Bush for many things over his 8 years in office but Bush is irrelevant now that Obama is in his 2nd term and his results didn't deserve re-election, Bush's did. I suggest bls.gov, bea.gov, and the U.S. Treasury data to prove my point.
 
Re: U.S. Adds Only 88,000 Jobs; Jobless Rate Falls to 7.6%

Conservative said:
Well then nothing more to add since your mind is made up. The true partisan here is you. I criticized Bush for many things over his 8 years in office but Bush is irrelevant now that Obama is in his 2nd term and his results didn't deserve re-election, Bush's did. I suggest bls.gov, bea.gov, and the U.S. Treasury data to prove my point.
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No, the true partisan is you, I didn't vote for Obama because of his results. You on the other hand have shown you only care about the R in front of the person running for president. What is it about conservatism that creates lack of thinking?
 
Re: U.S. Adds Only 88,000 Jobs; Jobless Rate Falls to 7.6%

Conservative said:
The numbers are there for all to see but you choose not to pay any attention to them.

I have posted before the goals of ARRA so please tell me why YOU believe it was a success.

The claim of saving jobs, how do you define a saved job?

Does it make any sense for you to spend 842 billion dollars and generate the numbers he generated a year after ARRA?

what is it in that Opinion piece that is wrong?
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The numbers themselves are just fine. It's your pitiful excuse for analysis that needs a whole lot of work here.

The findings of firms who happen to be the authorities on these types of matters.

The retainment of a position likely lost without intervention. The most obvious forms being public sector positions retained through supplemental funding that would've otherwise been lost due to revenue shortfalls.

How much the fiscal stimulus has helped the economy cannot be determined through an accounting exercise. Washington's statisticians cannot canvas the country and pick out which jobs have been created or saved by the stimulus and which have not. The best tools available involve statistical analysis that is subject to a range of uncertainties. But although the exact number of jobs that would have been lost without the
fiscal stimulus will never be known, it is clear that this number is significant. Research by Moody’s Analytics and others, such as the Congressional Budget Office, suggeststhat without ARRA, at least 2
million fewer jobs would exist today and the unemployment rate would be closer to 11% (see Table 5).
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http://www.economy.com/mark-zandi/d...tee-Perspectives-on-the-US-Economy-070110.pdf

What is there to dispute? What findings are actually up for debate here? It's an opinion piece which cites individual interviews as reason enough to label the bill as a failure. I'll pass.
 
Re: U.S. Adds Only 88,000 Jobs; Jobless Rate Falls to 7.6%

TheNextEra said:
No, the true partisan is you, I didn't vote for Obama because of his results. You on the other hand have shown you only care about the R in front of the person running for president. What is it about conservatism that creates lack of thinking?
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Your opinion noted
 
Re: U.S. Adds Only 88,000 Jobs; Jobless Rate Falls to 7.6%

Conservative said:
Your opinion noted
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As is yours each and every time you try to analyze data. The numbers are sound, your analysis of WHY the numbers are what they are is what is opinion.
 
Re: U.S. Adds Only 88,000 Jobs; Jobless Rate Falls to 7.6%

a351 said:
The numbers themselves are just fine. It's your pitiful excuse for analysis that needs a whole lot of work here.

The findings of firms who happen to be the authorities on these types of matters.

The retainment of a position likely lost without intervention. The most obvious forms being public sector positions retained through supplemental funding that would've otherwise been lost due to revenue shortfalls.



http://www.economy.com/mark-zandi/d...tee-Perspectives-on-the-US-Economy-070110.pdf

What is there to dispute? What findings are actually up for debate here? It's an opinion piece which cites individual interviews as reason enough to label the bill as a failure. I'll pass.
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Opinions are noted and the accuracy of the CBO is there for all to see, very poor. You cannot tell what is a saved job for much of the money went into the state coffers. Theirs is an opinion just like yours but it does seem that the CBO is accurate when a liberal wants it to be accurate and false when it refutes what they say. By what measurable standard was the stimulus successful?
 
Re: U.S. Adds Only 88,000 Jobs; Jobless Rate Falls to 7.6%

TheNextEra said:
What is it about conservatism that creates lack of thinking?
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I suppose asking you for evidence to back this up would be asking too much, right?
 
Re: U.S. Adds Only 88,000 Jobs; Jobless Rate Falls to 7.6%

TheNextEra said:
As is yours each and every time you try to analyze data. The numbers are sound, your analysis of WHY the numbers are what they are is what is opinion.
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My analysis is no different than yours, what makes yours right and mine wrong? Answer, your opinion is viewed as fact by you
 
Re: U.S. Adds Only 88,000 Jobs; Jobless Rate Falls to 7.6%

Fletch said:
I suppose asking you for evidence to back this up would be asking too much, right?
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MAybe when you ask the same from conservative I'll take your request seriously and answer.
 
Re: U.S. Adds Only 88,000 Jobs; Jobless Rate Falls to 7.6%

Conservative said:
My analysis is no different than yours, what makes yours right and mine wrong? Answer, your opinion is viewed as fact by you
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Ah but see I don't pass my analysis off as fact. I recognize that it is my opinion. You try and pass yours off as fact.
 
Re: U.S. Adds Only 88,000 Jobs; Jobless Rate Falls to 7.6%

TheNextEra said:
MAybe when you ask the same from conservative I'll take your request seriously and answer.
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In other words, you cant back it up. Thanks.
 
Re: U.S. Adds Only 88,000 Jobs; Jobless Rate Falls to 7.6%

TheNextEra said:
Ah but see I don't pass my analysis off as fact. I recognize that it is my opinion. You try and pass yours off as fact.
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When did I say my analysis was fact, only the data posted is fact and you already acknowledgedthe data was accurate. I love the excuses Obama supporters make for the data always blaming someone else and never placing any blame on the leader in charge.
 
Re: U.S. Adds Only 88,000 Jobs; Jobless Rate Falls to 7.6%

a351 said:
I was using strictly non-farm payroll figures. My point stands though. The decline in total employment that you cite as proof of the ARRA's ineffectiveness is chronologically bankrupt, as it ignores the losses of millions of positions well before it's passage, let alone it's actual implementation. There has not been a decline in total employment since either of those dates.
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Graph: Labor Force Participation Rate in the United States (USALFPRNA) - FRED - St. Louis Fed

Labor Participation rate.jpg

The graph did not allow for later data. ARRA didnt change the particpation rate by much, if at all.
 
Re: U.S. Adds Only 88,000 Jobs; Jobless Rate Falls to 7.6%

Conservative said:
By what measurable standard was the stimulus successful?
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While I don't agree with it, the standard that the stimulus was successful was their opinion that MORE jobs would have been lost if not done. I don't agree with it, but it is every much an opinion just like those that say we would have been better off without the stimulus. There is no way to prove any side wrong since both are essentially using opinions to justify success or failure.

Both sides have used this excuse to justify bad numbers. The right used it when they said Kerry would have been worse than Bush to justify voting for Bush again and the left uses it when they say the economy would have been worse if the stimulus not done so they pushed it.
 
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