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Thread: U.S. Adds Only 88,000 Jobs; Jobless Rate Falls to 7.6%[W: 831]

  1. #341
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    Re: U.S. Adds Only 88,000 Jobs; Jobless Rate Falls to 7.6%

    Quote Originally Posted by Kushinator

    No, i just understand the nature of our economic reality. The private sector is sitting on $3 trillion plus in short term liquidity. Tax rates are near historic lows (both corporate and individual). As previously stated, corporations are protecting shareholder value.
    With record profits and such low tax rates, economic theory dictates the private sector sure be investing this capital back into the market, expanding their enterprise and creating new jobs to fill.

    One should consider the ramifications of Dodd-Frank churning out reams of new regulations, as well as the added cost of hiring new employees built in to Obamacare.

    It is correct to assert that business is simply "protecting shareholder value." There is no value to be had from corporate expansion and capital investment.

    This is the direct effect of stifling economic policy.

    Unless of course one is foolish enough to believe that every one of the 9,000 pages of new regulations are needed for our economy to function...

    Especially when advocating for robust government stimulus as the only effective means to get the economy going.

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    Re: U.S. Adds Only 88,000 Jobs; Jobless Rate Falls to 7.6%

    Quote Originally Posted by poweRob View Post
    Revenues go up naturally due to population growth meaning more people are paying taxes. In fact tax revenue growth was lower under Reagan than previous presidents. This is always ignored by those who make your argument that Reagan's tax cuts were the reason why revenues went up. Fact is... that's not true.

    This guy kind of explains it rather well:

    The argument that the near-doubling of revenues during Reagan's two terms proves the value of tax cuts is an old argument. It's also extremely flawed. At 99.6 percent, revenues did nearly double during the 80s. However, they had likewise doubled during EVERY SINGLE DECADE SINCE THE GREAT DEPRESSION! They went up 502.4% during the 40's, 134.5% during the 50's, 108.5% during the 60's, and 168.2% during the 70's. At 96.2 percent, they nearly doubled in the 90s as well. Hence, claiming that the Reagan tax cuts caused the doubling of revenues is like a rooster claiming credit for the dawn.

    Furthermore, the receipts from individual income taxes (the only receipts directly affected by the tax cuts) went up a lower 91.3 percent during the 80's. Meanwhile, receipts from Social Insurance, which are directly affected by the FICA tax rate, went up 140.8 percent. This large increase was largely due to the fact that the FICA tax rate went up 25% from 6.13 to 7.65 percent of payroll. The reference to the doubling of revenues under Reagan commonly refers to TOTAL revenues. These include the above-mentioned Social Insurance revenues for which the tax rate went UP. It seems highly hypocritical to include these revenues (which were likely bolstered by the tax hike) as proof for the effectiveness of a tax cut.

    Hence, what evidence there is suggests there to be a correlation between lower taxes and LOWER revenues, not HIGHER revenues as suggested by supply-siders. There may well be valid arguments in favor of tax cuts. But higher tax revenues does not appear to be one of them.

    link...
    You really don't understand our economy do you, it is consumer driven and generated so people with more spendable income spend it, save it, or pay off debt all helping the economy. Only a big govt liberal believes the govt. needs the money more than the people do. What is it in your past that generates this knid of belief? Sorry but the facts prove you wrong, working people pay more in taxes than unemployed people and thus there were more workers then than now thus higher revenue

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    Re: U.S. Adds Only 88,000 Jobs; Jobless Rate Falls to 7.6%

    I don't have time to study your article and the economy of New Jersey, but would suggest a more non biased source than Bloomberg in the future. Btw, in the little I did read, it says that unemployment has gone down a little.



    Quote Originally Posted by donsutherland1 View Post
    The state economy is doing better, but assuming that it is due mainly or wholly to the tax cuts can't be demonstrated, at least not right now. One could be dealing with a coincidence in timing on account of other factors. For example, New Jersey had a different experience.

    Christie

    It is probably likely that the tax relief had some impact, but a modest one. One need only look at the companies' financial data to see that state taxes account for a small portion of their cost structure, meaning that the tax relief had a modest positive impact on after-tax profitability. Perhaps much more likely is that Michigan was well-positioned to leverage the improvement in certain sectors e.g., cyclical manufacturing revival. States with economies focused on those sectors, even without tax policy changes, have enjoyed an economic boost.

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    Re: U.S. Adds Only 88,000 Jobs; Jobless Rate Falls to 7.6%

    Quote Originally Posted by Kushinator View Post
    You cannot view it from a vacuum, as tax revenue is dependent upon income. If output were to fall, tax revenue must also fall (as tax revenue is derived from income).



    More anti-intellectual drivel. You cannot compare raw non-stationary time series data due to the dynamics of economic variables across the said time series, e.g. inflation, tax rates, output levels, etc.... It has nothing to do with "liberal tactics".
    Have you ever been in retail sales? Do you think businesses make more on sale items than regular items? Of course not but they draw people in and create opportunities for more sales. Tax cuts do the same thing, they create an atmosphere condusive to greater revenue caused by increased spending and more jobs. People like just cannot grasp that more taxpayers paying a lower rate still generate more revenue and have a multiplier effect

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    Re: U.S. Adds Only 88,000 Jobs; Jobless Rate Falls to 7.6%

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    You really don't understand our economy do you, it is consumer driven and generated so people with more spendable income spend it, save it, or pay off debt all helping the economy. Only a big govt liberal believes the govt. needs the money more than the people do. What is it in your past that generates this knid of belief? Sorry but the facts prove you wrong, working people pay more in taxes than unemployed people and thus there were more workers then than now thus higher revenue
    So I just ****ed your politically dogmatic world view all up and you do your usual non sequitur response of "You're stupid and I'm smarter than you" bull**** dodge post. Ok...My bad. I seriously should've known better than to reply to your tripe.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moderate Right View Post
    The sad fact is that having a pedophile win is better than having a Democrat in office. I'm all for a solution where a Republican gets in that isn't Moore.

  6. #346
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    Re: U.S. Adds Only 88,000 Jobs; Jobless Rate Falls to 7.6%

    How well did Michigan's economy do during Obama's first two years?

    Quote Originally Posted by poweRob View Post
    I've never made any claims. You have. Can you back them up? I mean I can easily play your game. Obama's president. Pretty much all states are doing better since Bush is gone. Therefore Michigan is doing better because of Obama.

    Now, for me to make that claim without any sources is specious at best, yet that is the same way you have formulated your argument. It is wrong... but it is the same.

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    Re: U.S. Adds Only 88,000 Jobs; Jobless Rate Falls to 7.6%

    Quote Originally Posted by JC Callender View Post
    I don't have time to study your article and the economy of New Jersey, but would suggest a more non biased source than Bloomberg in the future. Btw, in the little I did read, it says that unemployment has gone down a little.
    You are playing the "biased media" card with Bloomberg mag? Really?
    Quote Originally Posted by Moderate Right View Post
    The sad fact is that having a pedophile win is better than having a Democrat in office. I'm all for a solution where a Republican gets in that isn't Moore.

  8. #348
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    Re: U.S. Adds Only 88,000 Jobs; Jobless Rate Falls to 7.6%

    Quote Originally Posted by JC Callender View Post
    How well did Michigan's economy do during Obama's first two years?
    Seems to be doing better the further away from Bush we get doesn't it?

    Granted I don't buy that outright but this is how you debate so... welcome to your mirror.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moderate Right View Post
    The sad fact is that having a pedophile win is better than having a Democrat in office. I'm all for a solution where a Republican gets in that isn't Moore.

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    Re: U.S. Adds Only 88,000 Jobs; Jobless Rate Falls to 7.6%

    Quote Originally Posted by StringBean View Post
    With record profits and such low tax rates, economic theory dictates the private sector sure be investing this capital back into the market, expanding their enterprise and creating new jobs to fill.
    Until aggregate demand is expanding robustly leading to substantial sales growth, businesses will not expand aggressively. With the slower growth, a greater share of the focus remains on increasing productivity and effiency rather than taking on new employees/building new factories, etc. New employees, new factories, new equipment all entail significant new financial commitments. Right now, in many parts of the economy, aggregate demand is not expanding at a rate where companies need to increase their productive capacity.

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    Re: U.S. Adds Only 88,000 Jobs; Jobless Rate Falls to 7.6%

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Have you ever been in retail sales? Do you think businesses make more on sale items than regular items? Of course not but they draw people in and create opportunities for more sales. Tax cuts do the same thing, they create an atmosphere condusive to greater revenue caused by increased spending and more jobs. People like just cannot grasp that more taxpayers paying a lower rate still generate more revenue and have a multiplier effect
    This is not even a response to my post. Tax rates are at historic lows while revenues are at their lowest level (factoring for inflation) since 2003. And yet, it is not generating additional revenue.
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

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