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Female Marines Fail Infantry Officer Course

Gathomas88 said:
No ****. :roll:





Most likely.

Peons! A mere lack of ability will not stand in the way of the PROGRESSIVE REVOLUTION!!!!11!!!11!!!!



It's just a tad more complicated than that. The males who washed out were likely the least impressive specimens the program had to offer. The female volunteers the Marines selected for this "trial run" were specifically chosen because they were the most capable females the Corps had to offer.

They simply couldn't hack it. In any sane world, that should really tell every one something about the wisdom of forcing women into combat roles.

Precisely because of that fact, it, of course, won't. :roll:
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We also don't know how many of those males washed out due to physical injuries and how many just couldn't hang.
 
apdst said:
The inability to perform is a damn good reason why they can't try.

You know that not every male troop that applies to these course gets to actually go. Right?
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Same stats, same procedures, same everything. No reason they cannot try. Are you having a hard time comprehending this point?
 
Chaddelamancha said:
Doesn't matter if it is zero; they just want their chance.
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It just don't work like that in the military. Combat is REAL! The bad guys will give you every chance to die. The objective in battle is to do more killing and less dieing than the enemy.
 
apdst said:
Oops!!!! A 100% washout rate among females participating in an infantry school is a waste of tax payer dollars.


[/INDENT]
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You could say the same about anyone else who washes out, male or female.
 
apdst said:
It just don't work like that in the military. Combat is REAL! The bad guys will give you every chance to die. The objective in battle is to do more killing and less dieing than the enemy.
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It does work like that. I'm not saying you should put women in combat roles if they fail to pass the required test. I'm saying they should at least be able to try out.
 
Wiseone said:
You could say the same about anyone else who washes out, male or female.
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You know damn good and well, El-Tee, that not every swinging dick who wants to, gets to go to IOBC. I bet you saw soldiers washout of TCOBC, or whatever that pog course is called.
 
Chaddelamancha said:
It does work like that. I'm not saying you should put women in combat roles if they fail to pass the required test. I'm saying they should at least be able to try out.
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If they qualify to take the course...just like male soldiers have to qualify to take the course.

I'm not saying that females shouldn't be allowed to take the course, however I am saying that there needs to be a reasonable assurance that she can meet the performance standards. Otherwise, you're wasting money, time and degrading the training for other soldiers who will pass.
 
Ikari said:
Same stats, same procedures, same everything. No reason they cannot try. Are you having a hard time comprehending this point?
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There needs to be an assurance that they can pass. Are you having a hard time comprehending THIS point?
 
Chaddelamancha said:
Doesn't matter if it is zero; they just want their chance.
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It does matter though.

I'm sympathetic to the idea that female soldiers want to advance their careers but the military has to do what is best for itself. Every spot taken by a woman who may have no chance at all of completing the program comes at the expense of a man who has a significantly better chance of completing it. How long before we have a shortage of capable officers in our military because the pipeline is clogged by a politically correct feel good story?
 
StillBallin75 said:
Not any more of a waste than anyone else washing out. Curious you neglected to comment on the 12 males who failed to make the cut.
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Bwaahaahaa!
 
apdst said:
There needs to be an assurance that they can pass. Are you having a hard time comprehending THIS point?
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What's the assurance that males will pass? Does "same everything" mean "not same everything" in your world? Jesus tap dancing Christ on a pogo stick. It's like English isn't your primary language.
 
The same could be said about the 13 men who didn't pass. The problem is that you can't judge women as a whole. Each woman has the right to step up and try out, regardless if another woman didn't pass.


Dapper Andy said:
It does matter though.

I'm sympathetic to the idea that female soldiers want to advance their careers but the military has to do what is best for itself. Every spot taken by a woman who may have no chance at all of completing the program comes at the expense of a man who has a significantly better chance of completing it. How long before we have a shortage of capable officers in our military because the pipeline is clogged by a politically correct feel good story?
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Chaddelamancha said:
The same could be said about the 13 men who didn't pass. The problem is that you can't judge women as a whole. Each woman has the right to step up and try out, regardless if another woman didn't pass.
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They do, but they go through the same exact procedure as men. They can try, but nothing changes. Classes, PT, blah blah blah. Anything a dude had to do to try out for the test, chicks have to do to try out for the test. But they should be allowed the opportunity to compete.
 
I would never advocate that the rules/standards/regulations for combat roles be softened for women. Never.


Ikari said:
They do, but they go through the same exact procedure as men. They can try, but nothing changes. Classes, PT, blah blah blah. Anything a dude had to do to try out for the test, chicks have to do to try out for the test. But they should be allowed the opportunity to compete.
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Gathomas88 said:
These were the best females the Corps had to offer.
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That's not really relevant and you don't know if that's true or not anyway.

apdst said:
You know damn good and well, El-Tee, that not every swinging dick who wants to, gets to go to IOBC. I bet you saw soldiers washout of TCOBC, or whatever that pog course is called.
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I don't believe any standards should be lowered to accommodate women or anyone else, but to say that these female Marines should not have attended the Infantry Course simply because they are women is wrong. They obviously met the standards to get into the school in the first place as did all their male counterparts who attended, and I'm assuming they were considered better qualified than many male candidates who didn't get into the school in the first place.

I actually one guy fail Transportation OBC, personally I don't know what the hell was wrong with him but he couldn't pass the damn Army PT test. That's not really relevant either though. And lets not get into this pissing contest about combat arms branches against support branches.
 
Chaddelamancha said:
I would never advocate that the rules/standards/regulations for combat roles be softened for women. Never.
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Yeah, I take the same stance. I won't differentiate on sex, I'll differentiate on ability.
 
Chaddelamancha said:
The same could be said about the 13 men who didn't pass. The problem is that you can't judge women as a whole. Each woman has the right to step up and try out, regardless if another woman didn't pass.
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There is a difference between failing a test and having no business taking it in the first place.

The 13 men who failed didn't get to cut the line because of political correctness like the women. They had to qualify for it and in qualifying there was a reasonable expectation that they could pass. There is not going to be a reasonable expectation that a women will succeed in these course. You can scream sexism all you want but it's biology.
 
Ikari said:
What's the assurance that males will pass? Does "same everything" mean "not same everything" in your world? Jesus tap dancing Christ on a pogo stick. It's like English isn't your primary language.
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Males have been "passing" the course since its inception. Every female to attempt the course so far (again, keep in mind that these are the best females the Marine Corps has to offer) has failed.

You do the math. A small percentage of weak or unlucky men washing out vs. every last top of the line female to take the course washng out. You're deliberately going out of your way to miss what's right under your nose.

If even these women can't hack it, what chance do the rest of them have?

Sure, one of them might eventually make it through. However, would that really be worth the expense of running so many failures through the system?

Wiseone said:
That's not really relevant and you don't know if that's true or not anyway.
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Of course it's true. The Pentagon has a vested interested in trying to force females through, and it's an all volunteer program.

Do you really think that "little miss mealy mouse" is going to volunteer for infantry school? These are the butch, motivated "GI Jane" types.

Furthermore, if literally every female to take the course failing isn't "relevant," what the Hell is? This is the military, not a damn charity ball.
 
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Gathomas88 said:
Males have been "passing" the course since its inception. Every female to attempt the course so far (again, keep in mind that these are the best females the Marine Corps has to offer) has failed.

You do the math. A small percentage of weak or unlucky men washing out vs. every last top of the line female to take the course washng out. You're deliberately going out of your way to miss what's right under your nose.

If even these women can't hack it, what chance do the rest of them have?

Sure, one of them might eventually make it through, but would that really be worth the expense of running so many failures through the system?
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Ability, not sex. Not a tough concept.
 
So any man, with the right amount of time/effort/training/what have you, could pass the test? Or are there certain guys who have no business taking the test in the first place?

Dapper Andy said:
There is a difference between failing a test and having no business taking it in the first place.

The 13 men who failed didn't get to cut the line because of political correctness like the women. They had to qualify for it and in qualifying there was a reasonable expectation that they could pass. There is not going to be a reasonable expectation that a women will succeed in these course. You can scream sexism all you want but it's biology.
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Wiseone said:
That's not really relevant and you don't know if that's true or not anyway.



I don't believe any standards should be lowered to accommodate women or anyone else, but to say that these female Marines should not have attended the Infantry Course simply because they are women is wrong. They obviously met the standards to get into the school in the first place as did all their male counterparts who attended, and I'm assuming they were considered better qualified than many male candidates who didn't get into the school in the first place.

I actually one guy fail Transportation OBC, personally I don't know what the hell was wrong with him but he couldn't pass the damn Army PT test. That's not really relevant either though. And lets not get into this pissing contest about combat arms branches against support branches.
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Too bad for you, I never said that. Wanna try again?
 
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