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Thread: North Carolina May Declare Official State Religion Under New Bill

  1. #61
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    Re: North Carolina May Declare Official State Religion Under New Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Taylor View Post
    I'm sure you'd probably agree with a lot of what Thomas Jefferson had to say on the matter when the SCOTUS first granted themselves the power to interpret the Constitution:

    "You seem ... to consider the judges as the ultimate arbiters of all constitutional questions; a very dangerous doctrine indeed, and one which would place us under the despotism of an oligarchy. Our judges are as honest as other men, and not more so. They have, with others, the same passions for party, for power, and the privilege of their corps.... Their power [is] the more dangerous as they are in office for life, and not responsible, as the other functionaries are, to the elective control. The Constitution has erected no such single tribunal, knowing that to whatever hands confided, with the corruptions of time and party, its members would become despots. It has more wisely made all the departments co-equal and co-sovereign within themselves."
    the USSC has taken on themselves to be the authority of everything, even things which are not in the constitution at all.

    when the court first ruled on the BILL of RIGHTS, they stated clearly, that they in no way pertained to the states, ..only the federal government...in 1833

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    Re: North Carolina May Declare Official State Religion Under New Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Taylor View Post
    I'm sure you'd probably agree with a lot of what Thomas Jefferson had to say on the matter when the SCOTUS first granted themselves the power to interpret the Constitution:

    "You seem ... to consider the judges as the ultimate arbiters of all constitutional questions; a very dangerous doctrine indeed, and one which would place us under the despotism of an oligarchy. Our judges are as honest as other men, and not more so. They have, with others, the same passions for party, for power, and the privilege of their corps.... Their power [is] the more dangerous as they are in office for life, and not responsible, as the other functionaries are, to the elective control. The Constitution has erected no such single tribunal, knowing that to whatever hands confided, with the corruptions of time and party, its members would become despots. It has more wisely made all the departments co-equal and co-sovereign within themselves."
    Consider the eloquence and earnest intention of those remarks, and compare it to what we hear from the collection of know-nothings that preside over our well-being today.

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    Re: North Carolina May Declare Official State Religion Under New Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Taylor View Post
    I'm sure you'd probably agree with a lot of what Thomas Jefferson had to say on the matter when the SCOTUS first granted themselves the power to interpret the Constitution:

    "You seem ... to consider the judges as the ultimate arbiters of all constitutional questions; a very dangerous doctrine indeed, and one which would place us under the despotism of an oligarchy. Our judges are as honest as other men, and not more so. They have, with others, the same passions for party, for power, and the privilege of their corps.... Their power [is] the more dangerous as they are in office for life, and not responsible, as the other functionaries are, to the elective control. The Constitution has erected no such single tribunal, knowing that to whatever hands confided, with the corruptions of time and party, its members would become despots. It has more wisely made all the departments co-equal and co-sovereign within themselves."
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    the USSC has taken on themselves to be the authority of everything, even things which are not in the constitution at all.

    when the court first ruled on the BILL of RIGHTS, they stated clearly, that they in no way pertained to the states, ..only the federal government...in 1833
    Quote Originally Posted by Erod View Post
    Consider the eloquence and earnest intention of those remarks, and compare it to what we hear from the collection of know-nothings that preside over our well-being today.
    Alexander Hamilton had this to say about it

    [T]he courts were designed to be an intermediate body between the people and the legislature, in order, among other things, to keep the latter within the limits assigned to their authority. The interpretation of the laws is the proper and peculiar province of the courts. A constitution is, in fact, and must be regarded by the judges, as a fundamental law. It therefore belongs to them to ascertain its meaning, as well as the meaning of any particular act proceeding from the legislative body. If there should happen to be an irreconcilable variance between the two, that which has the superior obligation and validity ought, of course, to be preferred; or, in other words, the Constitution ought to be preferred to the statute, the intention of the people to the intention of their agents.

    Nor does this conclusion by any means suppose a superiority of the judicial to the legislative power. It only supposes that the power of the people is superior to both; and that where the will of the legislature, declared in its statutes, stands in opposition to that of the people, declared in the Constitution, the judges ought to be governed by the latter rather than the former. They ought to regulate their decisions by the fundamental laws, rather than by those which are not fundamental....

    [A]ccordingly, whenever a particular statute contravenes the Constitution, it will be the duty of the Judicial tribunals to adhere to the latter and disregard the former....

    [T]he courts of justice are to be considered as the bulwarks of a limited Constitution against legislative encroachments

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    Re: North Carolina May Declare Official State Religion Under New Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    All law requires a body that is the ultimate decider of what it means, its a simple fact that comes with implementing it. And if you think think Constitution is simple to understand think again, many of its most important parts are vague and without a court to determine exactly what they mean they would be meaningless for their vagueness. Look at the 4th amendment:
    it you look at the proposals of the constitutional convention, they are written in a more elegant style, when Gouverneur Morris penned them, it was written in an easy to read fashion aimed squarely at the federal government.

    it is only those who believe the constitution to be hard, ..that is the problem.

    question?....why do we have constitutions of states BOR when they are generally disregarded and the federal one has taken their place.

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    Re: North Carolina May Declare Official State Religion Under New Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    Alexander Hamilton had this to say about it
    Alexander Hamilton was also an ardent Federalist who believed in rule by an elite aristocracy.

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    Re: North Carolina May Declare Official State Religion Under New Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Taylor View Post
    Really? Go to Indiana on a Sunday and try to buy some liquor.
    Just because unjust laws exist does not mean that we throw open the flood gates. Instead we should be seeking the repeal of these sorts of laws, not their proliferation.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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    Re: North Carolina May Declare Official State Religion Under New Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    it you look at the proposals of the constitutional convention, they are written in a more elegant style, when Gouverneur Morris penned them, it was written in an easy to read fashion aimed squarely at the federal government.

    it is only those who believe the constitution to be hard, ..that is the problem.

    question?....why do we have constitutions of states BOR when they are generally disregarded and the federal one has taken their place.
    Because a state has need to define how its government will function like any other government and if they want to include rights of citizens that's their choice, but just because they exist doesn't mean they override the Federal Constitution. The Constitution is a hard document to read and to know exactly what it means, the Supreme Court says busy for a reason, I provided an exactly of the 4th amendment and why for that amendment to mean anything you need a court to rule on it.


    Quote Originally Posted by Taylor View Post
    Alexander Hamilton was also an ardent Federalist who believed in rule by an elite aristocracy.
    I'm just saying the founding fathers had different opinions on the matter, personally I like Hamilton's because its a much more piratical perspective. Thomas Jefferson may sound nice but to implement what he's proposing wouldn't be practical and wouldn't turn out well.

    All law requires a ruling body to determine when and how it has been violated, the Constitution is law and describes itself as such when it says its the Supreme Law of the Land, and therefore the Constitution like all other laws falls under the purview of the courts and the courts have their own hierarchy that ends at the SCOTUS. If there was no court that could say when the Constitution had been violated it would be a worthless document.

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    Re: North Carolina May Declare Official State Religion Under New Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Just because unjust laws exist does not mean that we throw open the flood gates. Instead we should be seeking the repeal of these sorts of laws, not their proliferation.
    I'm not advocating their proliferation, merely pointing out that it is legal to pass laws based on "religious doctrine alone" - but where needed, it's quite easy to come up with some sort of secular rationalization to help make the case - things like "respecting tradition" or "acknowledging the history of our nation" etc.

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    Re: North Carolina May Declare Official State Religion Under New Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Taylor View Post
    Alexander Hamilton was also an ardent Federalist who believed in rule by an elite aristocracy.
    actually the senate created under the founders is an (aristocracy), but it was not in the sense of people being royal, but in the sense of people having some political experience before assuming a senate seat.

    as the founders state our government is mixed government, it is republican government , its democracy in the house, aristocracy in the senate, and a monarchy for the presidency.

    each equal in power, and each watching each other so that one does not become to powerful.

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    Re: North Carolina May Declare Official State Religion Under New Bill

    Just another day in the life of the radical right-wing evangelicals that are attempting to push their perverted brand of Christianity into every segment of government and society.
    <font size=5><b>Its been several weeks since the Vegas shooting.  Its it still "Too Early" or can we start having the conversation about finally doing something about these mass shootings???​</b></font>

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