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Thread: North Carolina May Declare Official State Religion Under New Bill

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    Re: North Carolina May Declare Official State Religion Under New Bill

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    Quote Originally Posted by Taylor View Post
    I believe it was legal up until 1947 - when the Establishment Clause was incorporated against the states. The last state to have an established religion was Massachusetts, and all made the decision on their own to "disestablish" decades before the 14th amendment was passed... North Carolina disestablished in 1776. They did have a law that made it illegal for anyone other than a Christian to serve in office up until 1875. They still have a law that forbids atheists from serving, but I doubt it's been tested.

    By the year 1702 all 13 American colonies had some form of state-supported religion. This support varied from tax benefits to religious requirements for voting or serving in the legislature. Below are excerpts from colonial era founding documents citing these religious references.
    Most instances of state-supported religion were removed before 1850, and the remaining requirements became null and void after the passing of the 14th Amendment on July 28, 1868. New Hampshire and North Carolina removed the nullified religious references from their state constitutions in 1875 and 1877 respectively.

    I. Time Between Original Colonial Charter and End of State-Supported Religion


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    This Reform Party member thinks it is high past time that we start electing Americans to congress and the presidency who put America first and their political party further down the line. But for way too long we have been electing Republicans and Democrats who happen to be Americans instead of Americans who happen to be Republicans and Democrats.

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    Re: North Carolina May Declare Official State Religion Under New Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    i am not aiming anything at you personally, so please dont take it that way.

    but why is it i see people posting things that are federal law, and put it forth as it overrides constitutional law, or say something is unconstitutional, when the Constitution does not mention it.
    Because the Supreme Court determines what is and is not constitutional and is the Supreme Court in the land overriding any state.

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    Re: North Carolina May Declare Official State Religion Under New Bill

    Let's make Buddhism the national religion

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    Re: North Carolina May Declare Official State Religion Under New Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    Because the Supreme Court determines what is and is not constitutional and is the Supreme Court in the land overriding any state.
    many many times, i have federal law being posted , stating ....this is the law.....but i see it as no duty of congress, or nothing in the constitution that pertains to it.

    the USSC cannot challenge the constitutionality of the constitution, in other words the court saying something to the effect, we have determined, that there is no due process of law.......because that would challenge supreme law.

    the USSC cannot rewrite the constitution, ...but that is what they have been doing.

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    Re: North Carolina May Declare Official State Religion Under New Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    many many times, i have federal law being posted , stating ....this is the law.....but i see it as no duty of congress, or nothing in the constitution that pertains to it.

    the USSC cannot challenge the constitutionality of the constitution, in other words the court saying something to the effect, we have determined, that there is no due process of law.......because that would challenge supreme law.

    the USSC cannot rewrite the constitution, ...but that is what they have been doing.
    No they can't rewrite it, but they do determine what it means. A subtle and clever difference, but someone or some group has to determine what it means.

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    Re: North Carolina May Declare Official State Religion Under New Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Perotista View Post
    By the year 1702 all 13 American colonies had some form of state-supported religion. This support varied from tax benefits to religious requirements for voting or serving in the legislature. Below are excerpts from colonial era founding documents citing these religious references.
    Most instances of state-supported religion were removed before 1850, and the remaining requirements became null and void after the passing of the 14th Amendment on July 28, 1868. New Hampshire and North Carolina removed the nullified religious references from their state constitutions in 1875 and 1877 respectively.
    Again, if you're going to define "state-supported religion" so broadly, there were (legal) instances well into the 20th century. In terms of an establishedstate religion (e.g. the official religion of such an such a state is the Anglican church) - the States abolished that practice well ahead of the 14th amendment.

    The 14th amendment did not have an immediate impact on "state-supported religion" so it is incorrect to say that it effectively "became null and void after the passing of the 14th Amendment on July 28, 1868" - unless you're talking like 80 years after the passing of the 14th Amendment.

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    Re: North Carolina May Declare Official State Religion Under New Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    No they can't rewrite it, but they do determine what it means. A subtle and clever difference, but someone or some group has to determine what it means.
    i will never understand how a 5 page document, which sets up the government , and delegates to them 18 duties only, and instructs them not to infringe on the rights of the people and the power of states, can be so hard.

    in the first amendment...it clearly states" congress shall make no law"...........the constitution was never written for the states or the people to instruct them in any way.

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    Re: North Carolina May Declare Official State Religion Under New Bill

    I am beginning to support secession, not for my state, but for pretty much the entirety of the old Confederate States. You want to leave, please, go.

    They can have the entirety of the old Confederacy, minus Florida South of the Palm Beach County line (I am sure they would be fine with that, mostly liberals, Jews, blacks, Hispanics, and other foreigners anyway)

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    Re: North Carolina May Declare Official State Religion Under New Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    the constitution was never written for the states or the people to instruct them in any way.
    I'm sure you'd probably agree with a lot of what Thomas Jefferson had to say on the matter when the SCOTUS first granted themselves the power to interpret the Constitution:

    "You seem ... to consider the judges as the ultimate arbiters of all constitutional questions; a very dangerous doctrine indeed, and one which would place us under the despotism of an oligarchy. Our judges are as honest as other men, and not more so. They have, with others, the same passions for party, for power, and the privilege of their corps.... Their power [is] the more dangerous as they are in office for life, and not responsible, as the other functionaries are, to the elective control. The Constitution has erected no such single tribunal, knowing that to whatever hands confided, with the corruptions of time and party, its members would become despots. It has more wisely made all the departments co-equal and co-sovereign within themselves."

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    Re: North Carolina May Declare Official State Religion Under New Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    i will never understand how a 5 page document, which sets up the government , and delegates to them 18 duties only, and instructs them not to infringe on the rights of the people and the power of states, can be so hard.

    in the first amendment...it clearly states" congress shall make no law"...........the constitution was never written for the states or the people to instruct them in any way.
    All law requires a body that is the ultimate decider of what it means, its a simple fact that comes with implementing it. And if you think think Constitution is simple to understand think again, many of its most important parts are vague and without a court to determine exactly what they mean they would be meaningless for their vagueness. Look at the 4th amendment:

    The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.
    By itself its meaningless, it doesn't define what an unreasonable search or seizures are, it doesn't define "effects" it doesn't define violated, it doesn't define warrant, it doesn't define probable cause, it doesn't define Oath or affirmation, it doesn't define how "particularly describing" a warrant must be about the things or persons to be searched or seized. But the reason we know that a police officer's "hunch" doesn't not constitute probable cause to stop and search you on the street is because the issue has come before the court and its been defined. Likewise all of these things have been defined either by Congress (things like the oaths of office) or by the Courts, either the Supreme or Lower courts.

    The law cannot function without a court system, and through its very nature of making rulings a court system will naturally begin to define the law. When a court rules 10 out of 10 ten times that a police officer's hunch isn't probable cause to search someone, they are in essence telling us what the Constitution means even though the Constitution says nothing about police officer's hunches.

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