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NRA unveils plan for armed guards in schools it says 'will save lives'

I'm reminded of my best friend in 4th grade who had really bad asthma. He kept his inhaler on him because when he had an attack, there was no time, not even seconds, to go to the office for it.

...and what person experiencing an asthma attack can run at all anyway?
 
Yes. With a belt-few weapon, too. Then you don't know anything about the art of concealment. I've carried at jobs for years without detection. Exactly. Damn hard to find. There's so many reguler ordinary things to distract you from noticing, even if you're actively looking for someone packing heat. In most cases all you have to do is challenge the active shooter and he kills himself. The OR mall shooter, for example, killed himself immediately after a civilian pointed a pistol at him. Spoken like someone who's never had to pull the trigger. Save your speeches for your paintball team. Because a uniformed Recourse Officer carrying their gun openly is so much more discrete. I think you play to many video games. Adam Lansa shot his way past all such obstacles. They wouldn't let him in, so he shot out the window and forced entry, then when the staff in the office tried stop him, he just shot them. Words cannot express how deeply I sincerely do not care about what you believe. And that's why your bull**** about strategy means exactly squat. Everything becomes chaos. Everyone has a plan until they get punched in the face.

So you shot it out with bad guys in a school with children running around with a belt fed weapon? Your ahhhh 'experience' grows with each telling!

I'd say your years of concealed carry were not around people who knew some were carrying, I doubt you'd last a week before all the kids knew you packed. You again show no real experience in what goes on as the crap goes down. Those kids would be on a mission to figure out which persona was packing, I'd wager quite a few who work around you tend to do their best to ignore you...see a difference?

You just keep believing all you have to do is challenge a shooter and he offs himself... 6 teachers at the school would claim otherwise... umm wait they can't because they are dead! And please say the shooter could tell they were not armed because then you contradict yourself on spotting armed teachers amid the 'choas'.

Oh I have pilled the trigger, used stripper clips, belt fed weapons, claymores, LAWs, the old 'thumper'... have my scars to prove I did more than pose for moto photos! Again I am not claiming a show of force, as weak as a single person is is what would work.

Adam Lanza didn't shoot his way past effective barriers like are being introduced in schools across the nation. You again make crap up.

Frankly you have proven time and time again you have no real experience and just like to pretend you know crap.

what i said was a truly hardened school wouldn't have let Lanza in. The money/effort is better spent on barriers to entry than a teacher most everyone knows is armed.
 
It is when you're not sitting at the desk. Teachers aren't always in the class room; some classes occur in other parts of the school, and recess, and lunch, and gymn, and field trips....leaving loaded firearms unattended is always a bad idea. Any of those kids can YouTube a given lock-box to see if there's a hack, and open it. No, the gun needs to stay on the owner's person so that it's always in their immediate possession and control.

In SD we have a Sentinel Program where it's not just the teacher packing heat, but any employee. Janitors don't have desks. When I visit the school, I don't have a desk either because I'm not a teacher.


"Strapped"? WTF kind of holsters do you use? Non of my holsters have straps.


See I knew you had a sense of humor somewhere.


If a shooter busts into a school, and 10 faculty members stand up and return fire, the odds are heavily in the faculty's favor.

The problem is, teachers conceal carrying on campus will not be happening for a very long time, if at all. Half the country is ridiculous, and doesn't believe that there should be a single gun on a school campus. Trying to pitch and idea like yours doesn't really help the cause, and honestly just fuels the "they want every teacher to be armed, blah, blah, blah" hyperbole.

Just as many governments in the past have used incrementalism to take guns away, we need to use incrementalism to bring more guns back. We need to start with little steps, like just getting a gun on campus at all, let people get used to the idea, and see that it's not the end of the world, then move further as necessary.

Unfortunately the US is not a country of quick change for things like this, it needs to be done in well thought out baby steps.
 
Half of the people at my parents church conceal carry, and they all seem to enjoy the sense of security. When you use ridiculous hyperbole like "passing out guns at the door", it just makes you look lazy and desperate.

Personally, I have a bit of a theological problem with feeling the need to carry a firearm to church. Christianity is about trusting the Lord. Sorry, but having a gun in church under the misguided notion that you are protecting your sorry self represents pretty low trust in the Lord.

On the other hand, those that have so little trust need to be in church with their Bibles open.
 
The problem is, teachers conceal carrying on campus will not be happening for a very long time, if at all.
Oh just...stop.

Guns on Campus: Overview

Colleges and Universities that Allow Guns on Campus | Armed Campuses

Guns On Campus: Texas, Arkansas Legislators File To Allow Concealed Carry At Colleges

House panel OKs bill allowing guns on campuses

Concealed Carry Weapon Laws & College Campuses


In the United States, 49 out of 50 states have concealed carry weapons laws. Currently, there are 21 states that ban carrying a concealed weapon on a college campus: Arkansas, California, Florida, Georgia, Louisiana, Massachusetts, Michigan, Missouri, Nebraska, Nevada, New Jersey, New Mexico, New York, North Carolina, North Dakota, Ohio, Oklahoma, South Carolina, Tennessee, *Texas, and Wyoming.


In 23 states the decision to ban or allow concealed carry weapons on campuses is made by each college or university individually: Alabama, Alaska, Arizona, Connecticut, Delaware, Hawaii, Idaho, Indiana, Iowa, Kansas, Kentucky, Maine, Maryland, Minnesota, Montana, New Hampshire, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island, South Dakota, Vermont, Virginia, Washington, and West Virginia.


Due to recent state legislation and court rulings, 5 states now have provisions allowing the carrying of concealed weapons on public post-secondary campuses. These states are Colorado, Mississippi, Oregon, Utah, and Wisconsin.
*Texas has introduced legislation to allow those with a TX CCW to carry on campus.


Oregon Firearms Federation


Putting aside for a moment that Oregon does not issue "concealed weapons permits," this school just like every other public school in the state, has NO authority to forbid a person with a concealed handgun license from entering school property. While both Oregon and Federal law forbid people from being on school property with firearms, concealed handgun license holders are exempt from both laws.Oregon statute 166.370 forbids firearms in "public buildings" which schools are, but subsection B says "this section does not apply to:... (d) A person who is licensed under ORS 166.291 and 166.292 to carry a concealed handgun"


As we have said elsewhere, if you have a child you maycarry unto public school property.
 
Personally, I have a bit of a theological problem with feeling the need to carry a firearm to church. Christianity is about trusting the Lord. Sorry, but having a gun in church under the misguided notion that you are protecting your sorry self represents pretty low trust in the Lord.

On the other hand, those that have so little trust need to be in church with their Bibles open.

I'm an atheist, so I take complete responsibility for my own protection. However, from what my parents believe, god allegedly doesn't want his followers to just be weak victims who don't defend themselves. He instead gives them the power and courage to do it.

Church shootings have happened, and some were very, very bloodly. A church shooting at my parent's church wouldn't get very far, and more people would be able to come home to their families. That's all that matters.
 

These are colleges. I am well aware of this for colleges, which is comprised completely of adults. My brother conceal carries at his university in Oklahoma.

I thought it was obvious that we were talking about TEACHERS in K-12 SCHOOLS. Apparently not.
 
These are colleges. I am well aware of this for colleges, which is comprised completely of adults. My brother conceal carries at his university in Oklahoma.

I thought it was obvious that we were talking about TEACHERS in K-12 SCHOOLS. Apparently not.
Read again. The link of SD schools is K-12. The link on Oregon is K-12 schools. etc.
 
I just never carry in church. It did not seem right but I have not thought it through. I think you might be right.
Personally, I have a bit of a theological problem with feeling the need to carry a firearm to church. Christianity is about trusting the Lord. Sorry, but having a gun in church under the misguided notion that you are protecting your sorry self represents pretty low trust in the Lord.

On the other hand, those that have so little trust need to be in church with their Bibles open.
 
Read again. The link of SD schools is K-12. The link on Oregon is K-12 schools. etc.

I just went through it again. Links 1-3 are only about colleges, zero mention of K-12. And link 4 for some reason says "Http/1.1 Service Unavailable". Perhaps you're thinking about different links.

By all means, feel free to post them.
 
I definitely think all schools should have at least one person armed, but I have mixed feelings about whether teachers should be able to carry in class. What do you think?

It's one thing to place police officer or trained armed guards in schools but I think it's a pretty bad idea to arm teachers.

I think a better idea would be to place the armed guards in a security office and set up a fire alarm-like system to immediately alert everyone if there is an intruder.
 
I just went through it again. Links 1-3 are only about colleges, zero mention of K-12. And link 4 for some reason says "Http/1.1 Service Unavailable". Perhaps you're thinking about different links.
It works for me, and I even quoted the 6th and final link of Oregon.

By all means, feel free to post them.
I have, and you're response is to claim computer problems and outright ignore 2 links.

There are more dignified ways to lose an argument.
 
It works for me, and I even quoted the 6th and final link of Oregon.


I have, and you're response is to claim computer problems and outright ignore 2 links.

There are more dignified ways to lose an argument.

Link 4 isn't even about k-12. Link 5 is about colleges. And link 6 is actually about Oregon, and yes it says K-12.

Not that any of this matters, because it will never catch on. As I stated, half of the country is full of idiots that don't want guns period on school grounds. I prefer to take something other than the most extreme position, and you would rather attack me than the other half of the country.
 
I definitely think all schools should have at least one person armed, but I have mixed feelings about whether teachers should be able to carry in class. What do you think?


Yes, ABSOLUTELY to armed qualified security. NO to teachers unless qualified (highly) and then not open carry in class. I believe the security officer also could be a counselor for behaviorial issues over all, thus costly school districts little.
 
Link 4 isn't even about k-12. Link 5 is about colleges. And link 6 is actually about Oregon, and yes it says K-12.

Not that any of this matters, because it will never catch on. As I stated, half of the country is full of idiots that don't want guns period on school grounds. I prefer to take something other than the most extreme position, and you would rather attack me than the other half of the country.
Having a gun is not extreme.
 
Link 4 isn't even about k-12. Link 5 is about colleges. And link 6 is actually about Oregon, and yes it says K-12.

Not that any of this matters, because it will never catch on. As I stated, half of the country is full of idiots that don't want guns period on school grounds. I prefer to take something other than the most extreme position, and you would rather attack me than the other half of the country.

It'd catch on REAL QUICK if the mass killers instead went after principals, office staff and school board members.
 
Having a gun is not extreme.

According to the brains of the average Americans, k-12 teachers being armed is one extreme of the debate. I simply would rather see something with a little more compromise that actually stands a chance of catching on mainstream instead of demanding, no compromises, that I get my way.
 
According to the brains of the average Americans, k-12 teachers being armed is one extreme of the debate. I simply would rather see something with a little more compromise that actually stands a chance of catching on mainstream instead of demanding, no compromises, that I get my way.
Compromise is my getting a permit and NICS before carrying. I have compromised enough, time to for the other side to meet me in the middle.

I'm even willing to give a bit more...I'll only carry a hand gun, no rifle, and I'll keep it concealed even-though that's like telling a Black man not to do anything "black" or a woman not to appear feminine.
 
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There is a easy and low cost solution to this.
Auxiliary police - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Licensed Police Officers are already allowed to carry guns on K-12 Schools.
So you give Teachers who want to a $200 a month stipend to become Auxiliary Police.
Five teachers scattered around even a large campus would provide a sufficient "unknown" factor,
to prevent most School shootings, at an added cost of only $9000 per school per year.
No laws have to change, The Teachers could even volunteer for free.
 
There is a easy and low cost solution to this.
Auxiliary police - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Licensed Police Officers are already allowed to carry guns on K-12 Schools.
So you give Teachers who want to a $200 a month stipend to become Auxiliary Police.
Five teachers scattered around even a large campus would provide a sufficient "unknown" factor,
to prevent most School shootings, at an added cost of only $9000 per school per year.
No laws have to change, The Teachers could even volunteer for free.

That is a great idea, but it wouldn't work everywhere. There are some areas, such as New York City, that don't allow their auxiliary police force to carry a gun. In NYC, they only carry a wooden baton.
 
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How so? Having an armed presence in and around schools has prevented shootings from escalating in the past.

Armed Guard Stops School Shooter After He Opened Fire at Atlanta Middle School

It could also serve as an active deterrent against future attacks. The sort of disturbed and feckless coward who shoots up a school full of defenseless children isn't exactly the kind of person to willingly walk into a confrontation that they might potentially lose, after all.

Besides, hiring a couple of rent-a-cops to stand guard is hardly going to break the bank. There is absolutely no logical reason to oppose the more moderate aspects of what the NRA is suggesting here, other than irrational anti-gun bias.



:roll:

I don't believe a presence on the whole does. We can Play it did here but not there, telling individual stories and pretend that such small sample sizes represent a whole, without any empirical evidence, but I don't see that as productive. It is really quite difficult to shoot someone and few can do it well in the heat of the moment.

And as once happened to a partner of mine (one of those useless stories from too small a sample size), someone took it away from him. That would create a problem that didn't exist before.
 
Armed guards are fine even though they
don't guarantee anything considering that Columbine had armed guards on duty during that shooting. However, arming teachers is stupid for a multitude of reasons. Not only will some kid eventually end up accidentally getting shot, but teachers will have to be seriously trained and paid more and each district is going to have to buy weapons, bullets and whatever else comes with these new additions. It would also make schools targets for criminals looking for weapons as I suspect not every teacher would take their weapon home. It would also probably make teaching an even less appealing profession than it already is making less exceptional people apply for the job. Arming teachers is just a dumb idea and people who suggest it as a rule are short sighted.

I agree. I would be afraid of a teacher shooting a student, or a kid getting some carless teacher's gun.

Sometimes there are fights in high schools and teachers break up those fights. A teacher drawing a gun in that situation and aiming at the students would be ****ed up. Soldiers and police officers actually go through gun and situation training, and some of still improperly respond to situations and kill innocent people.


I am do glad that I am not an educator.
 
We
have all been watching far too much Rambo and Under Siege. An averagely trained teacher wielding a fire arm, while under fire, is far more likely shoot a one of his students in the chaos of the event than "neutralize" an active shooter....

Sorry, but the whole gun debate / NRA posturing on school safety is rapidly moving to the territory of absurdity. Reason was abandoned long ago.

I agree. It would take rigorous training to take down an Adam Lanza. I know a trained officer or soldier has a much greater chance than somebody like me, and I don't think it's.reasonable to include target practice as part of every teachers yearly evaluation.
 
I'm an atheist, so I take complete responsibility for my own protection. However, from what my parents believe, god allegedly doesn't want his followers to just be weak victims who don't defend themselves. He instead gives them the power and courage to do it.

Church shootings have happened, and some were very, very bloodly. A church shooting at my parent's church wouldn't get very far, and more people would be able to come home to their families. That's all that matters.

I assume you are referring to the passage in 2 Nosuchbokus 15: 3-6

3. And the Lord stood before the Sandhedrin, the One subject to the will of the many 4. Knowing that man was blind to the prophesy of the Word and knowing that this would not end well for him 5. The Lord reached for his Glock 19 with a 30 round clip and rendered the wrath of the Father upon his adversaries 6. For whoever wants to save their life will save it, but whoever loses their life for me will lose it.

Of course, the typical Bible commentary on this package talks about how Christ was an example to mankind that you had to take personal responsibility for your safety, even in a sacred place such at before the Sanhedrin.. that one had to appear strong lest you otherwise appear weak.

Perhaps you have another such passage in mind that supports your assertion (I wouldn't look too hard). I know its a pretty hard for people to grasp the concept that mortal life isn't that important to Christians; its the eternal life that matters. There is nothing ungodly about going to reasonable measures to defend yourself and your family; but there is something very ungodly about being to infatuated with your mortal life and clinging to it at all cost. The idea of going to Church to worship God is about trust building and giving your life to God. Packing heat in the sanctuary is not trusting God. Matthew 16: 24-27 speaks to this...

Church shootings do happen. So what?
 
The solution to all these shootings is really very simple. On a child's 1st birthday the local, well regulated militia can hand deliver a brand new, shiny Glock with 5 fully loaded 30 round mags. On the child's 5th birthday they will receive a brand new AR-15. problem solved.
 
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