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NRA unveils plan for armed guards in schools it says 'will save lives'

Mycroft said:
Some churches do have armed guards...and they have saved lives. But there are armed guards...and then there are armed guards who will actually deal with a situation.

The following link recounts the events of a shooting at a church in my area: The Heroine Of The Colorado Springs Church Shooting | Nice Deb

And, yeah...I think the hundred or so people she saved don't have a problem with armed guards at their church.

btw, if Jeanne Assam...or someone like her...had been at Sandy Hook Elementary I think it would be safe to say that a bunch of 6 and 7 year old children would be alive today.
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Well, I am sure there will be no objections to putting armed guards in all the churches. hell, pass out guns at the front door. Give everyone a gun for mass. It would be a great program for promoting the church. I am sure it would breed a welcoming atmosphere of peace to know everyone around you is packing. I fully endorse the idea and it sounds great to me.
 
tererun said:
Well, I am sure there will be no objections to putting armed guards in all the churches. hell, pass out guns at the front door. Give everyone a gun for mass. It would be a great program for promoting the church. I am sure it would breed a welcoming atmosphere of peace to know everyone around you is packing. I fully endorse the idea and it sounds great to me.
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tererun, you should know by now that using hyperbole when you've just had your ass handed to you only makes you look more foolish than you already are.
 
Why don't we just put armed people everywhere? Why stop at schools?

It's so disappointing to see people overlooking the more fundamental problem that has plagued school shootings for the past 10 years, which is: mental health.

NYT http://www.nytimes.com/2013/04/01/health/more-diagnoses-of-hyperactivity-causing-concern.html?hp&_r=2& said:
"These rates reflect a marked rise over the last decade and could fuel growing concern among many doctors that the A.D.H.D. diagnosis and its medication are overused in American children.

The figures showed that an estimated 6.4 million children ages 4 through 17 had received an A.D.H.D. diagnosis at some point in their lives, a 16 percent increase since 2007 and a 53 percent rise in the past decade. About two-thirds of those with a current diagnosis receive prescriptions for stimulants like Ritalin or Adderall, which can drastically improve the lives of those with A.D.H.D. but can also lead to addiction, anxiety and occasionally psychosis."
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The State is waging a war on drugs while allowing legal drugs to pervade all of society, including the most innocent. The most recent sandy hook shooting was by a child who was suffering from withdrawals from anti-depressants. We are letting the State and educational system drug children who won't fall in line with an increasingly defunct system, and when they start to break down and act out - even though they don't understand why or who they are really acting out against - we turn the debate to guns themselves. Pathetic.

Maybe we should invest more effort into shoring up mental health in our schools, instead of taking money away from them, making them hellish places to be at, and then arming the place with weaponized soldiers because kids who are being given pharmaceutical straitjackets are starting to crack?

If children are cracking this much, then it's the system's fault, and not because of lack of guns. People don't just go crazy and start shooting for no reason.
 
Mycroft said:
tererun, you should know by now that using hyperbole when you've just had your ass handed to you only makes you look more foolish than you already are.
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No, I am serious, guns in churches is a great idea for me. It could not possibly turn out poorly for me at all. Even in the example mentioned above, how many died from gun in those churches? It is a wonderful idea. You are just mad because you know why i support guns in churches and you also know i am right about what it would turn churches into.
 
tererun said:
No, I am serious, guns in churches is a great idea for me. It could not possibly turn out poorly for me at all. Even in the example mentioned above, how many died from gun in those churches? It is a wonderful idea. You are just mad because you know why i support guns in churches and you also know i am right about what it would turn churches into.
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Half of the people at my parents church conceal carry, and they all seem to enjoy the sense of security. When you use ridiculous hyperbole like "passing out guns at the door", it just makes you look lazy and desperate.
 
tererun said:
I wonder how people would feel about putting armed guards in churches. Lots of easy targets, and it seems some people like to shoot up their parking lots so maybe people would appreciate an armed guard watching them as they pray?
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:shrug: people carried concealed in my church. It never bothered me.
 
RabidAlpaca said:
And do you have any actual facts to suggest that the teachers would do more harm than good? Let's imagine for a second one teacher did accidentally shoot a kid while trying to return fire to a shooter. One life trying to save 25 isn't that bad. Better than being completely unarmed and being shot like turkeys, like you'd prefer.


It needs to be paired with better security on campus to alert sooner to a threat. The gun will be very close by, and very quick to access, but the box will still restrict access to unauthorized personnel.
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They make gun safes that are opened by finger-print scanners, and are pretty small and easily storeable - say, built into the teachers' desk. That seems like a good all-around solution.
 
upsideguy said:
We have all been watching far too much Rambo and Under Siege. An averagely trained teacher wielding a fire arm, while under fire, is far more likely shoot a one of his students in the chaos of the event than "neutralize" an active shooter....
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What an interesting Claim. Fortunately, we have a wealth of incidences where armed individuals responding to an active shooter scenario have saved many lives. Can you demonstrate an equal or greater number of such individuals responding in such a way as to shoot more bystanders?
 
Love this part of the article...

Hutchinson said that the presence of armed school personnel would cut down the time needed to intercept an active shooter present inside school premises. "One thing you know for sure is that the response time is critical - if you can reduce that response time, if you have the firearm on the presence of someone in the school, it will save lives."
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They just used anti-gunners own arguement against them. The whole reason for magazine limits is to reduce the response time of the shooter giving someone time enough to "tackle" the shooter. Surely someone that can shoot from several feet away has a better chance at taking a shooter out than someone that has to run several feet in order to maybe tackle someone before they reload and fire a round into them right?
 
tererun said:
No, I am serious, guns in churches is a great idea for me. It could not possibly turn out poorly for me at all. Even in the example mentioned above, how many died from gun in those churches? It is a wonderful idea. You are just mad because you know why i support guns in churches and you also know i am right about what it would turn churches into.
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sigh...

So you double down on the hyperbole.

Tell me...what has the New Life Church turned into? They've had armed guards long before their shooting incident.
 
upsideguy said:
We have all been watching far too much Rambo and Under Siege. An averagely trained teacher wielding a fire arm, while under fire, is far more likely shoot a one of his students in the chaos of the event than "neutralize" an active shooter....

Sorry, but the whole gun debate / NRA posturing on school safety is rapidly moving to the territory of absurdity. Reason was abandoned long ago.
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we heard the same crap from the ARC when CCW licenses were being debated in the various state legislatures. The ARC wants victim disarmament zones so they can have more massacres to use to push for gun bans
 
tererun said:
they will need an armed guard to shoot you when you go nuts and start blowing people away in the parking lot. That is what MAD is all about.
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typical. But thanks for demonstrating what you really think about law abiding citizens owning guns. Those planning on killing kids-Like Lanza-premeditate their crimes and those wanting bans hope for more such massacres
 
tererun said:
No, I am serious, guns in churches is a great idea for me. It could not possibly turn out poorly for me at all. Even in the example mentioned above, how many died from gun in those churches? It is a wonderful idea. You are just mad because you know why i support guns in churches and you also know i am right about what it would turn churches into.
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That would be a great idea. The Preacher and Choir are generally on some sort of platform above everyone else. They could all be armed and ready. You could also have 2 or 3 people with AR-15's in the back to guard the doors. That would be the best way to honor God.
 
cpwill said:
What an interesting Claim. Fortunately, we have a wealth of incidences where armed individuals responding to an active shooter scenario have saved many lives. Can you demonstrate an equal or greater number of such individuals responding in such a way as to shoot more bystanders?
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I don't think its a stretch to claim that NYPD officers, in all probability, will have better arms training than almost any teacher packing heat:

NYPD confirms: All bystanders in Empire State attack hit by police bullets - U.S. News


[url]http://www.cnn.com/2012/07/30/opinion/frum-guns-safer

[/URL]
 
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TurtleDude said:
typical. But thanks for demonstrating what you really think about law abiding citizens owning guns. Those planning on killing kids-Like Lanza-premeditate their crimes and those wanting bans hope for more such massacres
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So gun owners suddenly switch to "mad" setting when they run amok, spraying bullets into their surroundings. Got you.
 
RabidAlpaca said:
Half of the people at my parents church conceal carry, and they all seem to enjoy the sense of security. When you use ridiculous hyperbole like "passing out guns at the door", it just makes you look lazy and desperate.
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Oh, but you don't want the other guy having a gun because then you don't get to pretend you are powerful. If they are a right then they should be free for everyone.
 
Jerry said:
Some of us have actually been in real situations and know personally wtf we're talking about. You apparently just play video-games.
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I love the witty retorts you often get on DP. When you get a meaningless, unthoughtful retort that contributes nothing to the dialogue it makes us really appreciate the cleaver. Maybe there is a witty poster somewhere on this thread.

I'm sorry, unless you are a teacher in a classroom with but novice gun handling experience involved in a school shooting you have no more basis of understanding of "wtf your are talking about" than I. So stick to adult debate.
 
Pilot said:
I definitely think all schools should have at least one person armed, but I have mixed feelings about whether teachers should be able to carry in class. What do you think?
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I don't think it's a good idea myself. One person. If an alarm was sounded that there was trouble, one guy is going to go "charging into the mix". They don't even do that in law enforcement. One person. With a target on his back. One person. Who, when the chips were down, if he isn't scared to death to get involved, he most assuredly should be. Would that person go charging in??

No. False sense of security. Waste of resources. For that one person's couple-year salary and benefits, a school could beef up their alarm systems, install wired alarms to the police department, put locks on classroom doors and, with the help of local law enforcement, come up with a first-alert system that might make a difference.

That and allowing personnel to carry weapons where it's legal to do so is probably the best we can do.
 
cpwill said:
So your argument is that clearly the state is incompetent, and therefore we should all depend on the state.....


...yeah, that's a winner, right there.
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I don't think that is remotely his argument. :coffeepap
 
Pilot said:
I definitely think all schools should have at least one person armed, but I have mixed feelings about whether teachers should be able to carry in class. What do you think?
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I don't think the NRA's proposals are anything new in terms of increased security at schools, indeed haven't cities such as New York had a New York City Police Department School Safety Division which is in in essence a school police force for New York City Department of Education schools. Perhaps the arming of such Police Officers based in Schools would be a sensible step given the current political climate, and it should also be noted that many Univesities in the US already have their own police forces.

New York City Police Department School Safety Division - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

NYPD - School Safety Agent Application

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Doesn't anyone question why we as a nation is so afraid of being attacked personally that we have to arm ourselves to the teeth at all times? Even in school and church? I'd understand it if the person carrying was attacked before, but if not... why the fear?
 
Boo Radley said:
I don't think that is remotely his argument. :coffeepap
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:shrug: then he needs to better explain himself. He is clear that we should not depend upon armed individuals, but rather depend upon armed police officers. When asked to defend his claim that armed individuals would fire into crowds of people, the only evidence he was able to come up with was an example of..... police officers doing so. His evidence belies his arguments.
 
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