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Thread: NRA unveils plan for armed guards in schools it says 'will save lives'

  1. #361
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    Re: NRA unveils plan for armed guards in schools it says 'will save lives'

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    I am still waiting for a valid explanation how a teacher carrying concealed (and for the arming of teachers to work their identity should not be known) will have his or her "relationship" with a student changed by that act. I suspect Slyfox has never carried concealed. As someone who has carried concealed on and off for years, I can say his claims are utter BS
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    Re: NRA unveils plan for armed guards in schools it says 'will save lives'

    Quote Originally Posted by Pilot View Post
    I definitely think all schools should have at least one person armed, but I have mixed feelings about whether teachers should be able to carry in class. What do you think?
    First let me say for background context that the Utah permit requires a 4hr accredited familiarity class, FBI fingerprints and daily federal NICS for entire life of the permit rather you buy a firearm or not. Teachers in Utah have been armed for 12 years. To the best of my knowledge there has never been a teacher involved gun accident or any incident of a student accessing a teacher's gun.



    Quote Originally Posted by Bill McGee, 2:15
    We have two approaches here: We can either arm all of our teachers and bring guns closer to our children, or we can make laws will remove guns and pull guns further away from kids....
    The CT law against bringing a gun to school did not stop Adam Lansa or any other murderer in history, ever. This does not mean we have to "arm all the teachers". It's reasonable to allow every permit holder to make the choice for themselves, and even then those who choose to carry are typically a minority.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bill McGee, 2:30
    If a teacher has access to a gun, then children have access to that gun.
    How many guns did the children of Sandy Hook "have access to" and how did that make the situation worse? Why aren't we hearing about Utah students getting a hold of their teacher's weapons?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bill McGee, 3:02
    ....[teachers] simply don't have the training needed to respond to a high-pressure situation in any kind of meaningful way, and if a scenario came up they [the teachers] are just going to compound the problem.
    So teachers can't respond to fires, medical emergencies, unarmed violent students, or a student coming to them with a report of abuse or rape? These things occur far more often then any shooting. If any school's teachers aren't trained to respond to a stressful situation in any meaningful way, then we have a much larger problem then Sandy Hook.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bill McGee, 5:45
    [when asked about a federal ban against anyone having a gun at any school in the US]....I think we need to have consistency across this issue. Parents should feel comfortable regardless of where they live.
    I have children in the public school system and I'm more comfortable with an armed faculty then not in exactly the same way that I am more comfortable with a faculty trained in 1st Aid and CPR with a kit handy.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bill McGee, 7:24
    Let's say, God forbid, there's a scenario where a teacher feels compelled to defend herself or the children, you've got the high-pressure environment, tunnel vision, inability to use your peripheral vision...all those things that happen in those kinds of scenarios, and you get children in between that teacher and whatever that perceived threat is and I think you've got a huge mess on your hands. The teachers aren't prepared and there's a huge liability issue and I don't want 'liability' to be one of my children.
    Please see this link:

    Connecticut teachers were heroes in the face of death
    By Ben Brumfield, CNN
    updated 10:30 AM EST, Tue December 18, 2012

    *click link for video*

    Victoria Soto, 27, moved her first-grade students away from the classroom door. The gunman burst in and shot her, according to the father of a surviving student.



    "She would not hesitate to think to save anyone else before herself and especially children," her mother, Donna Soto, told CNN's Piers Morgan.
    Anne Marie Murphy's body was found in a classroom, slumped over young children killed in the shooting. The 52-year-old special education teacher was apparently attempting to shield them, her father told the newspaper Newsday.
    Mrs Soto thought to hide the children as the gunman approached, and lied to him saying the children were in the gym. Other teachers were busy expertly carrying out well rehearsed emergency plans, send children to pre-designated emergency locations such as the local firehouse, in line with heads down and hand on the person in front of them. Mrs. Murphy sacrificed herself in the face of certain death to protect the children in her class.

    No sir, I have no problem with a gun in a teacher's hand.

  3. #363
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    Re: NRA unveils plan for armed guards in schools it says 'will save lives'

    It amazes me what little ability some of you seemingly possess to actually read, at least in this thread. The fact some of you are still asking for how it would disrupt the educational process/relationship with a student, despite me posting it twice and referring back to the specific post a couple of times, shows you all are not at all interested in debate, but rather regurgitate your own speaking points over and over, without taking anything else into consideration. I might as well be a rock you're yelling at, because you're not at all interested in hearing what is being posted in response, you're just interested in your own gun supporting agenda. The lack of reading comprehension has grown more annoying than I wish to deal with. Unlike the two or three of you, I read everything you post which is relevant to our debate (and there are two/three of you, and one of me) and I try to respond to each point. And I certainly don't ask you to explain something you've already explained.

    You have ignored the fact I've argued for police officers, or in the case of ChrisL, you've told me our children's lives are not worth the cost of saving. And if you don't understand a relationship exists between a student and teacher, then you are completely ignorant to what teachers do and you are totally unqualified to have this discussion. And if you're incapable of reading something which has been posted numerous times, then I suggest you re-enroll in elementary school because it's a pretty serious hindrance to any quality discussion.

    I likely won't be checking back into this thread, but if I do, please present an actual argument which shows you've actually read what I posted. I'd love to respond to an intelligent argument on this subject, and not just an argument from gun nuts who are only interested in spreading the very same gun culture responsible for the deaths in the first place.

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    Re: NRA unveils plan for armed guards in schools it says 'will save lives'

    Quote Originally Posted by Slyfox696 View Post
    It amazes me what little ability some of you seemingly possess to actually read, at least in this thread. The fact some of you are still asking for how it would disrupt the educational process/relationship with a student, despite me posting it twice and referring back to the specific post a couple of times, shows you all are not at all interested in debate, but rather regurgitate your own speaking points over and over, without taking anything else into consideration. I might as well be a rock you're yelling at, because you're not at all interested in hearing what is being posted in response, you're just interested in your own gun supporting agenda. The lack of reading comprehension has grown more annoying than I wish to deal with. Unlike the two or three of you, I read everything you post which is relevant to our debate (and there are two/three of you, and one of me) and I try to respond to each point. And I certainly don't ask you to explain something you've already explained.
    Sorry, but "because they will" is NOT an explanation, no matter how upset that makes you.

    You have ignored the fact I've argued for police officers, or in the case of ChrisL, you've told me our children's lives are not worth the cost of saving. And if you don't understand a relationship exists between a student and teacher, then you are completely ignorant to what teachers do and you are totally unqualified to have this discussion. And if you're incapable of reading something which has been posted numerous times, then I suggest you re-enroll in elementary school because it's a pretty serious hindrance to any quality discussion.
    No, there is a difference between something being worth the cost and communities just not having the monetary funds to do something. YOU really need to work on your understanding of how things work.

    As to the last part of this portion of your post, you have failed to explain how a concealed weapon would change the dynamic between student and teacher.

    I likely won't be checking back into this thread, but if I do, please present an actual argument which shows you've actually read what I posted. I'd love to respond to an intelligent argument on this subject, and not just an argument from gun nuts who are only interested in spreading the very same gun culture responsible for the deaths in the first place.
    It's sad that you cannot back up your position with any kind of valid argument or evidence. I see that your "flight" response has kicked in.

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    Re: NRA unveils plan for armed guards in schools it says 'will save lives'

    Quote Originally Posted by Slyfox696 View Post
    ...the very same gun culture responsible for the deaths in the first place.
    Well, you know that I've pretty much given up reading your blather and you know that your liberal debating tactics are the reason, but I have read some of your stuff because you sometimes include significant gems of insight into the core of your beliefs. The above is one such gem.

    Now, I happen to disagree with you that our so-called "gun culture" is responsible for any deaths. I believe that people are responsible for gun-related deaths....just as I would believe people are responsible for car-related deaths, not some nebulous "car culture".

    Do you agree that you would rather deal with the availability of guns than deal with the reasons why people kill other people?
    TANSTAAFL

    “An armed society is a polite society.”
    ― Robert A. Heinlein, Beyond This Horizon

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    Re: NRA unveils plan for armed guards in schools it says 'will save lives'

    Quote Originally Posted by Slyfox696 View Post
    It amazes me what little ability some of you seemingly possess to actually read, at least in this thread. The fact some of you are still asking for how it would disrupt the educational process/relationship with a student, despite me posting it twice and referring back to the specific post a couple of times, shows you all are not at all interested in debate, but rather regurgitate your own speaking points over and over, without taking anything else into consideration. I might as well be a rock you're yelling at, because you're not at all interested in hearing what is being posted in response, you're just interested in your own gun supporting agenda. The lack of reading comprehension has grown more annoying than I wish to deal with. Unlike the two or three of you, I read everything you post which is relevant to our debate (and there are two/three of you, and one of me) and I try to respond to each point. And I certainly don't ask you to explain something you've already explained.

    You have ignored the fact I've argued for police officers, or in the case of ChrisL, you've told me our children's lives are not worth the cost of saving. And if you don't understand a relationship exists between a student and teacher, then you are completely ignorant to what teachers do and you are totally unqualified to have this discussion. And if you're incapable of reading something which has been posted numerous times, then I suggest you re-enroll in elementary school because it's a pretty serious hindrance to any quality discussion.

    I likely won't be checking back into this thread, but if I do, please present an actual argument which shows you've actually read what I posted. I'd love to respond to an intelligent argument on this subject, and not just an argument from gun nuts who are only interested in spreading the very same gun culture responsible for the deaths in the first place.
    We're not going to believe or accept something just because you say it.

    You have to provide evidence in support of your claims and also evidence countering the claims of others.

    I don't see why you're amazed by this unless you didn't realize that this is a debate site and/or don't realize what debate is.

    You need to explain yourself, and you need to provide evidence that what you say is true. So far you haven't don that.

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    Re: NRA unveils plan for armed guards in schools it says 'will save lives'

    Armed guards in school will only bolster 2nd amendment brainwashing.
    children should not even know what a gun is till at least they reach the age of reason.
    it's unfair to their growth

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    Re: NRA unveils plan for armed guards in schools it says 'will save lives'

    Quote Originally Posted by ~Dr.Who~ View Post
    Armed guards in school will only bolster 2nd amendment brainwashing.
    children should not even know what a gun is till at least they reach the age of reason.
    it's unfair to their growth
    By age 7, both of my sons knew how to disassemble a .22 revolver, inspect it, clean it, reassemble it, load it and fire it safely. At age 9, they each received their own .22 rifle and became as proficient with it as they are with the revolver.

    The funny thing is, though, they are both in their early 20's and neither of them have any interest in firearms. Heck, if I didn't service their rifles every now and then, nobody would have touched them in at least 10 years.

    But I have a question for you: What do you consider "the age of reason"?
    TANSTAAFL

    “An armed society is a polite society.”
    ― Robert A. Heinlein, Beyond This Horizon

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    Re: NRA unveils plan for armed guards in schools it says 'will save lives'

    Quote Originally Posted by Mycroft View Post
    By age 7, both of my sons knew how to disassemble a .22 revolver, inspect it, clean it, reassemble it, load it and fire it safely. At age 9, they each received their own .22 rifle and became as proficient with it as they are with the revolver.
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    Re: NRA unveils plan for armed guards in schools it says 'will save lives'

    Quote Originally Posted by ~Dr.Who~ View Post
    Well, I suspect you are trying to employ sarcasm, but it's hard to know for sure.
    TANSTAAFL

    “An armed society is a polite society.”
    ― Robert A. Heinlein, Beyond This Horizon

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