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Thread: NRA unveils plan for armed guards in schools it says 'will save lives'

  1. #341
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    Re: NRA unveils plan for armed guards in schools it says 'will save lives'

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    that isn't the point. those who want drugs illegal generally really believe that. its not about punishing a political group
    Well, I don't think all drugs should be illegal, because drug abuse is a victimless crime.

    I am not convinced that a bushmaster is a necessary gun for self protection or hunting. Obtaining a bushmaster is a social concern when it's chosen by mass shooters because of the body toll it's capable of. That is not a victimless crime. At least do a background check on people or something, but don't compare obtaining a bushmaster to smoking a joint or raping somebody. It's not the same.

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    Re: NRA unveils plan for armed guards in schools it says 'will save lives'

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    There are actually many other options for concealed carry.

    There are "money belt/belly band" rigs, which are concealed under the waistline, along with different types of IWB (inside the waistband) holsters and rigs. There's pocket carry... you could spend an hour in close conversation with a man who had a Kel-Tec .380 in his pocket in an IPH (inside pocket holster) and never know he was carrying a gun.

    There are rigs, like reinforced T-shirts with built-in holsters, that allow one to carry a gun in a "shoulder holster position" under an ordinary shirt. Compact pistols these days can come in effective calibers like .380 and 9mm which are not large enough to show a noticeable "bulge".

    Over the past 30 years, as interest has expanded, options for discreet concealed carry have also expanded a great deal.
    300ConcealedCarry.jpg

    No doubt


    30012_010_Alternate1.jpg


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    Re: NRA unveils plan for armed guards in schools it says 'will save lives'

    Quote Originally Posted by SheWolf View Post
    Well, I don't think all drugs should be illegal, because drug abuse is a victimless crime.

    I am not convinced that a bushmaster is a necessary gun for self protection or hunting. Obtaining a bushmaster is a social concern when it's chosen by mass shooters because of the body toll it's capable of. That is not a victimless crime. At least do a background check on people or something, but don't compare obtaining a bushmaster to smoking a joint or raping somebody. It's not the same.
    that is silly. no one is hurt by mere ownership of a bushmaster or any other gun. OWNING A WEAPON creates NO victims



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    Re: NRA unveils plan for armed guards in schools it says 'will save lives'

    Quote Originally Posted by SheWolf View Post
    Regulating guns is more practical and less expensive then arming teachers and expecting an average person with a glock to kill somebody with a bushmaster. Most people went into to teaching for many reasons, but few envisioned defending the school till their death.
    Guess you'd rather they just be helpless in the face of the "bushmaster*?

    In close quarters such as a classroom, I'd venture that a 'trained' person (which they would be) with a Glock would be on par with an AR-15. [still just one pull of the trigger, one bullet]

    I don't think the teachers agree with you.

    700 pack free concealed-handgun class for teachers in Tarrant County | Crime and Safety ...

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    Re: NRA unveils plan for armed guards in schools it says 'will save lives'

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    that is silly. no one is hurt by mere
    ownership of a bushmaster or any other gun. OWNING A WEAPON creates NO victims
    Drinking is legal and driving a car is legal, but it's not legal to operate a car while drunk. It's killed a lot if people.

    A bushmaster in the wrong hands can kill way more people in a few minutes than a drunk man in a car.

    the point is, not everybody should own a bushmaster. Everybody should support background checks at least.

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    Re: NRA unveils plan for armed guards in schools it says 'will save lives'

    Quote Originally Posted by SheWolf View Post
    Drinking is legal and driving a car is legal, but it's not legal to operate a car while drunk. It's killed a lot if people.

    A bushmaster in the wrong hands can kill way more people in a few minutes than a drunk man in a car.

    the point is, not everybody should own a bushmaster. Everybody should support background checks at least.
    I support BG checks for buying guns/ammo just like I support ID checks for buying alcohol, tobacco and prescription drugs. What we do not do is ask each retailer to check a database for each such sale, we leave it up to the gov't to issue a photo ID and simply ask the clerks to verify it. Why not simply do the NICS BG check ONCE and, if passed, stamp the US adult citizen's ID "GUN OK". Should the "GUN OK" person later be convicted of a felony, be adjudged mentally incompetent or be served with a protection order from a court then simply take that "GUN OK" ID away from them, update the NICS database and make them trot on back to get a new ID card, absent the "GUN OK" desigantion.
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

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    Re: NRA unveils plan for armed guards in schools it says 'will save lives'

    Quote Originally Posted by SheWolf View Post
    Drinking is legal and driving a car is legal, but it's not legal to operate a car while drunk. It's killed a lot if people.

    A bushmaster in the wrong hands can kill way more people in a few minutes than a drunk man in a car.

    the point is, not everybody should own a bushmaster. Everybody should support background checks at least.
    again more silliness

    Owning a car is fine

    owning Jack Daniels is fine

    driving drunk or driving with the intent to kill is wrong

    Your continue to make fundamentally flawed comparisons that are patently ridiculous. You confuse ownership with improper use

    I oppose background checks by private citizens for three reasons

    1) congress doesn't have the power-there is no proper power

    2) even using the FDR tortured commerce clause expansion-there is no interstate commerce ramifications given private citizens can only sell INTRA-state

    3) the law won't have any impact on crime and the anti gunners want to use the predicted failure to demand complete registration



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    Re: NRA unveils plan for armed guards in schools it says 'will save lives'

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    again more silliness


    Owning a car is fine

    owning Jack Daniels is fine

    driving drunk or driving with the intent to kill is wrong

    Your continue to make fundamentally flawed comparisons that are patently ridiculous. You confuse ownership with improper use

    I oppose background checks by private citizens for three reasons

    1) congress doesn't have the power-there is no proper power

    2) even using the FDR tortured commerce clause expansion-there is no interstate commerce ramifications given private citizens can only sell INTRA-state

    3) the law won't have any impact on crime and the anti gunners want to use the predicted failure to demand complete registration
    You were the one to start making comparisons, which I found flawed.

    Meth and Jack Daniels have never been used as a weapon in mass killings, because that is impossible. We don't make things legal just because those laws will never be followed. I don't use that argument in any debate, because it's a weak and flawed argument. We may as well make murder and rape legal, because it will happen regarded of the law. Let's get rid of all speed zones and traffic tickets too.

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    Re: NRA unveils plan for armed guards in schools it says 'will save lives'

    Quote Originally Posted by SheWolf View Post
    You were the one to start making comparisons, which I found flawed.

    Meth and Jack Daniels have never been used as a weapon in mass killings, because that is impossible. We don't make things legal just because those laws will never be followed. I don't use that argument in any debate, because it's a weak and flawed argument. We may as well make murder and rape legal, because it will happen regarded of the law. Let's get rid of all speed zones and traffic tickets too.
    Until you understand the difference between mere ownership versus improper use, your posts on this subject will continue to be seen as foolish by most people who understand the issue

    owning a gun harms no one.



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    Re: NRA unveils plan for armed guards in schools it says 'will save lives'

    Quote Originally Posted by Slyfox696 View Post
    In the educational way. As I've said. Additionally, do not forget my police officers.
    I think you misunderstood my question. I'm asking how is throwing books and attacking an armed person MORE safe and effective than having someone armed who can actually shoot back and probably even kill the attacker.

    Because I look at some of the other "gun training requirements" which exist and I'm not encouraged. For example, if I'm not mistaken, a concealed carry permit in Missouri requires a total of 8 hours of training, to be divided into class time and range time. According to my father, who has his permit, many classes are more around 4 hours and half of that is just sitting around shooting the bull.
    That is different than what we are discussing. Of course anyone who is acting as an armed guard would have more training than that. Besides, I believe that varies from state to state.

    I don't know what the official requirements would be from state to state, but I think you and I both know it's not too difficult to imagine strict initial requirements, and then a gradual lessening over the years to the point where it's 8 hours and shooting the bull.
    No, actually I don't see that happening at all. Why would you think that?

    Any moron can shoot a gun. 12,000 gun related homicides in America prove that and that's something upon which we can both agree. But something like this is about FAR more than just shooting a gun. If a gunman entered a school classroom, the teacher would be dead almost immediately. Him/her having a gun likely wouldn't matter.
    Now this is interesting. You say that any moron can shoot a gun, yet you seem to think that teachers must be less qualified than your average mentally insane mass murderer? Why would you think a teacher would be so incompetent?

    The fact I hope our police are held to a higher standard? The fact it is their job to protect, while it's a teacher's job to educate?
    The teacher would still be educating. Why would you think otherwise?

    We knew which teachers wore thongs in school, sometimes even the color.

    Yes, we knew.
    LOL! Sure you did. Gotta say, that sounds very strange. I was never aware of the color or style of my teachers underwear. What kind of relationship did you have with your teachers anyway?

    But you're not a teacher. So you don't appreciate the lengths a teacher has to go to in order to make the connection with the student. Sometimes it is easy, and sometimes it's very difficult.
    You must be joking.

    It's not odd. How do you not understand this? A teacher has a relationship with a student. They have to, any person you interact with on a regular basis is someone you have a relationship with. Maybe it's a bad relationship, maybe it's a great one, or maybe it is somewhere in between, but you definitely have a relationship. The relationship a teacher needs to have with a student is one in which the teacher respects the student, but more importantly, where the student respects the teacher. A student who respects the teacher is one who will receive the best education the teacher can provide. But a teacher needs to know the relationship with the student is based upon the student and teacher, and not the gun. The gun changes the relationship, a gun always changes a relationship.
    I'm sorry you are so fearful of guns. Guns do NOT change relationships. When my dad got a gun when I was a child, it didn't change our relationship at all. If you are taking it out and brandishing it in front of students, bragging about it, in other words, being an irresponsible ass, then yeah, I could see your point. Otherwise, this is not a point at all.


    I explained in more detail in the post I directed you to previously. Because a gun changes a relationship between people, and the relationship between student and teacher is vital.

    How. Did you actually think I was going to let you get away with this as your explanation? And you call yourself a teacher? You get an F.

    No, I've actually considered you to be the most reasonable and rational thus far, to the point I was surprised at your last post. You have not received any attitude from me.
    I think you have an attitude of arrogance, as if you know more about children and guns and relationships than anyone else here.

    [QUOTE]You never had a favorite teacher? Never had a teacher you disliked? Did you ever discuss a problem with a teacher on homework or have a teacher talk to you in the halls? Did you ever do any extra curricular activities or volunteer at any school events?/QUOTE]

    Of course I had favorite teachers. It never went beyond Mr./Mrs. So and So is cool. I wouldn't call it a "relationship" in any sense of the word, except for maybe a professional type of relationship, which is the way it SHOULD be. I don't think parents really want teachers to have "relationships" with their children. They want them to concentrate on the education part.


    If the answer to any of those questions is yes (and I'd bet my next paycheck one of those is a yes, especially considering how elementary teachers work), then you had a relationship with your teacher.
    See above. Obviously, your idea of relationship and mine are two different things.

    It has everything to do with it. I'm explaining how a gun changes the dynamic. Just because you want teachers to have guns, doesn't mean what I'm saying isn't true.
    Doesn't mean it is true either though.


    And again, they will know. Between the teacher, the administrators, the school board, other teachers, the teacher's kids, etc....the kids will know. You're just being naive if you think otherwise.
    No, and you have not even given an explanation as to how they would know. Saying that "they just would" is NOT good enough. Sorry.

    It has nothing to do with me being fearful. Please understand this. And if the gun is not loaded, what's the point in having it?
    I disagree. I think you sound extremely fearful of guns. Your fear is directed in the wrong direction. You should fear the people who want to go to schools and kill innocent people, not the tool they use to accomplish that goal. There are other ways they can accomplish that goal without guns. Guns are not the problem.

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