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Thread: NRA unveils plan for armed guards in schools it says 'will save lives'

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    Re: NRA unveils plan for armed guards in schools it says 'will save lives'

    Quote Originally Posted by Slyfox696 View Post
    Yes, I did.
    I went back through this entire thread and re-read everything you said to me, twice. No, you have not.

    Quote Originally Posted by Slyfox696 View Post
    They are not employees of the school district until they are hired, and before they are hired, they are still "random people".
    And they're all weeded out through the current hiring process.

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    Re: NRA unveils plan for armed guards in schools it says 'will save lives'

    Quote Originally Posted by Slyfox696 View Post
    This is simply false. The people can fight back. The people should fight back. Will they be at the disadvantage in weaponry? Yes. Will they have the advantage in numbers? Absolutely.
    Okay, this is just ridiculous. You don't know HOW you are going to react in a situation like that. I imagine it takes a pretty brave person to rush someone with a weapon.

    The problem isn't with the lack of guns, though as I said, I'm okay with officers at the school. The problem is that schools have always been trained to be passive in shooter situations, not aggressive. When the two kids terrorized Columbine high school, had the students been trained to fight back, far fewer of them would have been hurt/killed. If the students at Virginia Tech had reacted with aggression and not hid behind their desks, the shooter would have been subdued almost immediately.
    Well, there is a difference between those shootings and the shooting by Adam Lanza in that the two shootings you mention above were committed by students of the school. Therefore, when they showed up at the schools, it was not out of the ordinary. I find it VERY strange that someone would assume that people are going to have what it takes to rush an armed person when they are unarmed. I've never heard such advice.

    Schools are now changing tactics. I know many schools in my area are going through training which teaches students this very concept. More and more schools are now seeing the folly of being passive and are now resorting to aggressive actions when a shooter is in their vicinity.
    Sure, if the opportunity presented itself, and you felt you were strong enough and quick enough, then it would be a good idea to try to disarm the maniac. I can't disagree with that point.

    I've actually said it multiple times in this thread, but I believe the first time was in post 185 in response to Goshin.

    If an intruder breaks into a classroom, the teacher will be the first one dead, in almost every instance. Nobody expects someone to come into their class ready to shoot. The shooter would have the advantage because they know why they are there and they will be prepared. The teacher will be the first dead, because the teacher is the leader of the classroom. When Cho attacked Virginia Tech, the first person in the classroom he killed was the professor. When Lanza came into the elementary, the first people he killed were the adults in the area he was firing (which also happened to be the principal). The teacher goes first. It's just a basic concept of attack. You take out the leader and then focus your efforts on the rest.
    And how does arming the teacher put them in any more danger then? Your point here is really not a point at all.

    The children would know. To think otherwise is just not being realistic.
    Good GOD! The children don't have ESP or x-ray vision!!!

    I find it amusing you think you know better than I do about a relationship between a teacher and student.
    And it's funny when you DO explain them, people don't bother reading them.
    Hello? I was a student once too. LOL! You seem to be on the defensive about your so-called "relationships" with your students. This was an extremely odd thing to say.

    See post #242. I've already explained it. The fact you didn't read it is your fault, not mine.
    MEOWWWWWW!

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    Re: NRA unveils plan for armed guards in schools it says 'will save lives'

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    Hello? I was a student once too. LOL! You seem to be on the defensive about your so-called "relationships" with your students. This was an extremely odd thing to say.
    See? I'm not the only one who thought that comment was odd.

    I've been through the school system, in different states even, and I never had any 'relationship' with my teachers. They were just instructors. Our 'relationship' was about as deep as the 'relationship' you have with a salesman or cashier.

    I could see a couple of them having guns...it just fits what they were like...and if I knew they actually did have a gun I would think that was cool.

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    Re: NRA unveils plan for armed guards in schools it says 'will save lives'

    Quote Originally Posted by Slyfox696 View Post
    Yes, I did.
    You keep referring to post 242, so I'll go back and read the whole thing, not just the part addressed to me, and we'll see what we'll see. I doubt I'm going to learn anything new about your argument.

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    Re: NRA unveils plan for armed guards in schools it says 'will save lives'

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    Okay, this is just ridiculous. You don't know HOW you are going to react in a situation like that. I imagine it takes a pretty brave person to rush someone with a weapon.
    That's why you train for it, practice it like you do other emergency situations. For example, (and you can skip to about 1:10 if you don't want to watch the whole thing):



    We've already begun the process at my school of training the students. We haven't gotten to the "swarm" part yet, but we will eventually.

    Well, there is a difference between those shootings and the shooting by Adam Lanza in that the two shootings you mention above were committed by students of the school. Therefore, when they showed up at the schools, it was not out of the ordinary. I find it VERY strange that someone would assume that people are going to have what it takes to rush an armed person when they are unarmed. I've never heard such advice.
    Then, with all due respect, you're behind on the current trends. More and more, schools are moving to this type of reaction. We know for a fact that crouching in a corner is not working. So when there is an active shooter, those who can flee will do so and those who are in the so-called "hot zone" have to be ready to attack, using whatever projectiles/weapons they can find.

    And how does arming the teacher put them in any more danger then? Your point here is really not a point at all.
    I never said arming the teacher puts the students in more danger, though the idea of loosely trained people firing wildly in a crazy situation does suggest there could be mistakes. My argument against arming teachers was the firearm changes the dynamic of the relationship between teacher and student.

    Good GOD! The children don't have ESP or x-ray vision!!!
    No one said they did. But I've already explained just a few of the ways they could find out.

    Hello? I was a student once too.
    Being a student and being a teacher are not even close to the same thing. When I was a student, my parents would tell me this and I wouldn't believe them. Now that I'm a teacher, I understand completely.

    You seem to be on the defensive about your so-called "relationships" with your students. This was an extremely odd thing to say.
    What's odd about saying there is a relationship between a teacher and a student? Is there not a relationship between those you interact with on a daily basis? Of course there is. Do you not have a relationship with your co-workers you have to deal with? Do you not have a relationship with your boss? To argue there's not a relationship between student and teacher is mind-boggling. I really don't understand why people are having such a problem understanding this.

    I'm not talking about a romantic relationship, which is what a few of you have suggested I meant. Maybe that clears things up?
    MEOWWWWWW!
    Meow? Are you a cat now? You made a statement saying I did not explain what I meant. I directed you to the specific post which showed I did explain. It's really quite simple.
    Last edited by Slyfox696; 04-06-13 at 10:47 PM.

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    Re: NRA unveils plan for armed guards in schools it says 'will save lives'

    Quote Originally Posted by Slyfox696 View Post
    Do you realize how little respect I have for you and any one else who resorts to such ridiculous statements like "liberal debating tactics"? You just sound as if you're completely brainwashed by "conservative" media. It's one thing to say it once, but when you use the same stupid statement in nearly every post you make, it reflects incredibly poorly upon you.

    Whenever you feel like having a civil discussion, and not one with generic insults which don't even make sense, let me know. Then I'll happily answer your question.
    shrug...

    I learned all about liberal debating tactics from people such as you...on forums such as this. Conservative media has nothing to do with it. Furthermore, I don't get brainwashed...I'm too smart and strong willed for that to happen.

    Now...the fact that I've drawn attention to your tactics...while I can understand your ire at being called out on it repeatedly...is really my way of dismissing such tactics. You see, I ignore them in a discussion because they add nothing to it. That's why I comment very little on your prattle.

    So...of course, it's your choice whether you address a cogent question or not, but the fact that you don't reflects more upon you...the one who chooses to ignore the question...than on me...the one who asked it.

    btw, do you realize how little I care whether you respect me or not?
    TANSTAAFL

    “An armed society is a polite society.”
    ― Robert A. Heinlein, Beyond This Horizon

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    Re: NRA unveils plan for armed guards in schools it says 'will save lives'

    Quote Originally Posted by head of joaquin View Post
    Again normal people generally don't want to be around weapons that can kill or maim you. Funny that.

    Now if you're saying boomsticklovers aren't normal, I tend to agree with you. We just shouldn't indulge them.

    Again, go to Starbucks and strut around with a gun. Maybe you can be a Starbuck's Sentinel. It's better than a school.
    I really suspect your definition of normal people is far different than that of most normal people.



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    Re: NRA unveils plan for armed guards in schools it says 'will save lives'

    [QUOTE=Slyfox696;1061661831]
    That's why you train for it, practice it like you do other emergency situations. For example, (and you can skip to about 1:10 if you don't want to watch the whole thing):

    We've already begun the process at my school of training the students. We haven't gotten to the "swarm" part yet, but we will eventually.

    Then, with all due respect, you're behind on the current trends. More and more, schools are moving to this type of reaction. We know for a fact that crouching in a corner is not working. So when there is an active shooter, those who can flee will do so and those who are in the so-called "hot zone" have to be ready to attack, using whatever projectiles/weapons they can find.
    And this is better than having a few armed teachers in what way?

    I never said arming the teacher puts the students in more danger, though the idea of loosely trained people firing wildly in a crazy situation does suggest there could be mistakes. My argument against arming teachers was the firearm changes the dynamic of the relationship between teacher and student.
    Why would you think that they would have to be not trained well. How difficult do you think it is to shoot a gun? I understand that if there was a shooting that there would be panic, but I see nothing wrong if a gunman or gunmen entered a school classroom and the teacher had the children hide under their desks while the teacher could take cover behind his or her desk and shoot the gunman. That would be better than throwing erasers, pencils and books I think.

    Also, I don't have a problem with armed guards either, but what makes you think that they would be any more well trained? MOST people have not been in such a situation.

    No one said they did. But I've already explained just a few of the ways they could find out.
    It would be easy enough to make it so that no one found out who was carrying and who was not. Do they know what color underwear you wear too?

    Being a student and being a teacher are not even close to the same thing. When I was a student, my parents would tell me this and I wouldn't believe them. Now that I'm a teacher, I understand completely.
    I'm also a parent . . . so I don't know what point you are trying to make here.

    What's odd about saying there is a relationship between a teacher and a student? Is there not a relationship between those you interact with on a daily basis? Of course there is. Do you not have a relationship with your co-workers you have to deal with? Do you not have a relationship with your boss? To argue there's not a relationship between student and teacher is mind-boggling. I really don't understand why people are having such a problem understanding this.
    What's odd about it is that you are trying to somehow link a relationship with the students to a teacher carrying concealed.

    I'm not talking about a romantic relationship, which is what a few of you have suggested I meant. Maybe that clears things up?
    I was making no such assumptions. I was just commenting that I don't see how it fits in with this conversation.

    Meow? Are you a cat now? You made a statement saying I did not explain what I meant. I directed you to the specific post which showed I did explain. It's really quite simple.
    In other words, you're getting an attitude.

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    Re: NRA unveils plan for armed guards in schools it says 'will save lives'

    Quote Originally Posted by Slyfox696 View Post
    I have students who have had parents killed by guns (murder-suicide, for example). I had a student once whose mother put a shotgun in her mouth and pulled the trigger. One of my friends in high school was sitting on a couch when his stepfather fired his weapon and the bullet lodged in the wall barely six inches from my friend's ear. The mentality children have towards guns is different, but it's always cautious and for some children, based upon past experiences, outright fear. As someone who has been around guns yourself, I'm sure you understand what it means to be cautious around a gun, even if you don't understand being afraid of them.

    So when the children know that one or many teachers are now carrying a gun, the dynamic in the class changes. Are the students behaving because of the respect which I discussed earlier, or are they behaving because they know there is a gun nearby? Are their actions the result of respect for me or fear from the gun? To give a similar example, if a police officer walked up to you and asked you to put on a pair of handcuffs because you were a suspect in a rape case, would you do it? Probably not, neither would I. We would likely be indignant and plead our innocence. But if the police officer drew their weapon and advanced upon you in an aggressive fashion, taking time only to throw handcuffs to you telling you to put them on, would you be more likely to do it? Of course you would, so would I.
    Ahh, so all this time you were referring to what you wrote to someone else, not to me.

    Well like I said, if you don't want to carry a gun for any reason, you don't have to.

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    Re: NRA unveils plan for armed guards in schools it says 'will save lives'

    Quote Originally Posted by Slyfox696 View Post
    You live in Missouri, not TX.

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