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Thread: NRA unveils plan for armed guards in schools it says 'will save lives'

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    Re: NRA unveils plan for armed guards in schools it says 'will save lives'

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    Going off of SD's Sentinel Program as my example:


    You have to be an employee of the school district and pass the exact same firearms course our police department uses.


    Between 16 to 40 hours, including range qualification, depending on the specific course taken.


    Salary doesn't change. The employee simply attains permission to carry a firearm. Their pay is identical to every other employee for that job.


    The individual seeking permission to carry pay for the entire thing out of their own pocket.
    16 to 40 hours in gun training? Is this the same level of training that cops undertake to use a gun?

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    Re: NRA unveils plan for armed guards in schools it says 'will save lives'

    Quote Originally Posted by Unitedwestand13 View Post
    16 to 40 hours in gun training? Is this the same level of training that cops undertake to use a gun?
    Yes.

    Employees enrolled in SD's Sentinel Program must complete the exact same firearms course our local police complete. The exact same course, taught by the exact same instructors, at the exact same range. I apologize if I wasn't clear in my previous post. This is not an equivalent course, this is the same certification our police get.

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    Re: NRA unveils plan for armed guards in schools it says 'will save lives'

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    Yes.

    Employees enrolled in SD's Sentinel Program must complete the exact same firearms course our local police complete. The exact same course, taught by the exact same instructors, at the exact same range. I apologize if I wasn't clear in my previous post. This is not an equivalent course, this is the same certification our police get.
    With that level of training, can one garrentee that these gaurds, while trying to subdue a mass killer, will not accidentally hit innocent children ?

    And how many gaurds will there be in a school? 1? 5?

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    Re: NRA unveils plan for armed guards in schools it says 'will save lives'

    Quote Originally Posted by Unitedwestand13 View Post
    With that level of training, can one garrentee that these gaurds, while trying to subdue a mass killer, will not accidentally hit innocent children ?
    "Active shooter" scenarios are a part of police training, and so are also a part of Sentinel training, since Sentinels take the exact same firearms course as the local police department. A Sentinel is as capable of handling an active shooter as any local cop. A Sentinel is less likely to shoot a child than the mass killer because the Sentinel is aiming at the mass killer, not children, while the mass killer is aiming at the children, not his own head. Did I say that right?

    Quote Originally Posted by Unitedwestand13 View Post
    And how many gaurds will there be in a school? 1? 5?
    First let me say that SD has had a very successful Resource Officer program since the 70s. At a minimum, there will be at least the uniformed police officer present at every school.

    As for Sentinels, theoretically there could be zero, if no one at a given school enrolls in the program, or, every employee at a school might have a gun, if they all choose to enroll. The number of Sentinels at a given school could change from one hour to the next as district employees such as maintenance, school food providers, and buss drivers come and go. These are not designated guards with a guard uniform. This is not the NRA's suggested program. These are ordinary employees of the school district, from teachers to janitors to accountants to bus drivers. Literally any employee. Sentinels are required to carry their firearm concealed, so you will never know who is and who is not a Sentinel.

    We see this kind of unknowable presence of Sentinels as a good thing, because someone like Adam Lansa can't know how many armed people are in a given school or where they are. This makes planning an attack incredibly difficult.
    Last edited by Jerry; 04-05-13 at 03:55 PM.

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    Re: NRA unveils plan for armed guards in schools it says 'will save lives'

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    "Active shooter" scenarios are a part of police training, and so are also a part of Sentinel training, since Sentinels take the exact same firearms course as the local police department. A Sentinel is as capable of handling an active shooter as any local cop. A Sentinel is less likely to shoot a child than the mass killer because the Sentinel is aiming at the mass killer, not children, while the mass killer is aiming at the children, not his own head. Did I say that right?


    As many employees of the school district who wish to become Sentinels. These are not designated guards with a guard uniform. These are ordinary employees of the school district, from teachers to janitors to accountants to bus drivers. Literally any employee. Sentinels are required to carry their firearm concealed, so you will never know who is and who is not a Sentinel.
    Mass shooters do not stand still, they would engage in a shootout with these sentinals. And what if this mass shooter is cruel and cunning enough to take hostages and stand among them?

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    Re: NRA unveils plan for armed guards in schools it says 'will save lives'

    Quote Originally Posted by Unitedwestand13 View Post
    Mass shooters do not stand still, they would engage in a shootout with these sentinals. And what if this mass shooter is cruel and cunning enough to take hostages and stand among them?
    Sentinels are a first response, identical in nature to having staff trained in 1st-Aid and CPR. Just as one would not expect first responders to perform surgery, Sentinels are not intended to deal with hostage situations or acts of terrorism.

    This is where SWAT comes in.

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    Re: NRA unveils plan for armed guards in schools it says 'will save lives'

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    You're not even using the quote code properly. That's just sloppiness.
    Your comment doesn't make sense. I'm quoting as I go. It's fairly common on vbulletin boards.

    No, you cannot control whether or not a gun is in your classroom.
    I'm pretty certain I can decide whether I carry a gun.

    If a sandy hook style shooting occurred in your classroom, you would have no control over the gun, because you are unarmed yourself.
    Again, you dishonestly change the context of my comment. My statement was in response to what kids know and how it relates to the relationship I have with the student. I said I cannot control certain factors which might impact that relationship, but I can control whether or not the relationship between the student and me involves a gun.

    At this point, considering your continued dishonesty in your posts and the fact you accused me of not using quote properly (erroneously, I might add), I consider your defeat to be total.

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    Re: NRA unveils plan for armed guards in schools it says 'will save lives'

    Quote Originally Posted by Slyfox696 View Post
    I'm pretty certain I can decide whether I carry a gun.
    That's not what you said, You said you could control rather or not there was a gun in your classroom. You are not the only person in your classroom. You are not the only person who gets to make a choice rather or not to bring in a gun. If someone else brings a gun into your classroom, there is a gun in your classroom. You don't get to make that choice. If a cop walks into your classroom, there is a gun in your classroom and you have no control over it. If an Adam Lansa wana-be brings a gun into your classroom, there is a gun in your classroom and you have no control over it. If you were in SD and a Sentinel brought a gun into your classroom, there would be a gun in your classroom and you would have no control over it.

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    Re: NRA unveils plan for armed guards in schools it says 'will save lives'

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    That's not what you said, You said you could control rather or not there was a gun in your classroom. You are not the only person in your classroom. You are not the only person who gets to make a choice rather or not to bring in a gun. If someone else brings a gun into your classroom, there is a gun in your classroom. You don't get to make that choice. If a cop walks into your classroom, there is a gun in your classroom and you have no control over it. If an Adam Lansa wana-be brings a gun into your classroom, there is a gun in your classroom and you have no control over it. If you were in SD and a Sentinel brought a gun into your classroom, there would be a gun in your classroom and you would have no control over it.
    But... What if you posted a polite sign on the door requesting that guns not be brought into the room?

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    Re: NRA unveils plan for armed guards in schools it says 'will save lives'

    Quote Originally Posted by Pilot View Post
    But... What if you posted a polite sign on the door requesting that guns not be brought into the room?
    A teacher does not have authority to prohibit otherwise lawful firearms from their classroom. This is not private property. This is District property, so if the District has given a Sentinel permission to carry on District property, they may do so.

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