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Thread: NRA unveils plan for armed guards in schools it says 'will save lives'

  1. #241
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    Re: NRA unveils plan for armed guards in schools it says 'will save lives'

    Quote Originally Posted by Slyfox696 View Post
    Uhh, yes you did.


    Don't blame me for your inability to remember your own posts.



    Do you ever get tired of being wrong? You're now wrong about something YOU said. I'd be embarrassed.
    I know I dismissed you, but I just have to comment on your inability to read and what that portends for the poor kids who expect you to teach them.

    You quoted me. You should re-read that quote...maybe a couple of times.

    I was talking about myself. I didn't say a single word about you asking me to apologize to you.

    Dude...you really need to give up these liberal/socialist debate tactics. They just cause you to get your ass handed right back to you and make you look foolish.
    TANSTAAFL

    “An armed society is a polite society.”
    ― Robert A. Heinlein, Beyond This Horizon

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    Re: NRA unveils plan for armed guards in schools it says 'will save lives'

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    the long winded nonsense is just that.
    Coming from one who accused me of wanting more children to be murdered, I find you to be an incredibly poor judge of deciding what is nonsense.

    how is the dynamic changed if a teacher is carrying concealed unless the teacher has to use the weapon
    This has already been explained to you. But I will again shortly, and in expanded form next time.

    I will be back tomorrow-see if you can actually answer that question
    I already have. But I will again, because I have yet to be impressed with your ability to understand my past posts.

    In a classroom, for learning to take place, a teacher needs to have a good relationship with the student. Whether it's a friendly relationship or simply a relationship of respect, the teacher needs the children to respect the teacher, for it's only then that learning can truly take place. I have a very good relationship with nearly all of my students, but I have a respectful relationship with all of them. We don't have to like each other, but we do have to understand our proper roles in the classroom. I'm there to dispense information and put the student in a position to learn the information. The student is there to participate in the activities and learn the information. This is based upon the respect we have for one another. It is a relationship of respect between two people.

    When you introduce a gun, the dynamic changes. I have students who have had parents killed by guns (murder-suicide, for example). I had a student once whose mother put a shotgun in her mouth and pulled the trigger. One of my friends in high school was sitting on a couch when his stepfather fired his weapon and the bullet lodged in the wall barely six inches from my friend's ear. The mentality children have towards guns is different, but it's always cautious and for some children, based upon past experiences, outright fear. As someone who has been around guns yourself, I'm sure you understand what it means to be cautious around a gun, even if you don't understand being afraid of them.

    So when the children know that one or many teachers are now carrying a gun, the dynamic in the class changes. Are the students behaving because of the respect which I discussed earlier, or are they behaving because they know there is a gun nearby? Are their actions the result of respect for me or fear from the gun? To give a similar example, if a police officer walked up to you and asked you to put on a pair of handcuffs because you were a suspect in a rape case, would you do it? Probably not, neither would I. We would likely be indignant and plead our innocence. But if the police officer drew their weapon and advanced upon you in an aggressive fashion, taking time only to throw handcuffs to you telling you to put them on, would you be more likely to do it? Of course you would, so would I.

    So it goes in the classroom. The children need to know the teacher is treating them normally, and not with an inflated sense of self-worth, brought about by carrying a firearm. And a teacher needs to know the children are behaving due to the respectful relationship formed between teacher and student, and not because of a gun.

    The gun changes the dynamic of the situation. It always will, because the gun possess an ability no human being posses...the ability to kill immediately, instantaneously and from a distance. The gun will always change the dynamic of the situation it is in, regardless of whether it is fired or not. Even the knowledge a gun might be present changes the dynamic. You can argue otherwise, but you would be wrong. Don't believe me? Take the advice gun supporters always give and walk down the bad streets of Chicago sometime, unarmed. My bet is the knowledge a gun might be present will have you on edge far more than when you're at your local shopping mall carrying your weapon.

    A gun changes the dynamic. This is just one reason teachers should not be armed (and there are others). If you want to place police officers in the school, I'm okay with that, I'll probably support that. At which point you get your armed adults and I get my teachers without guns. We're both happy and the children are safe. Which is what we both want, is it not?
    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    and you are the one who made "relationships" an issue and claim a concealed weapon would change that.
    No, Jerry accused me of an incredibly disgusting and offensive thing, likely because he knew he had been bested.

    And if you don't think a relationship exists between a teacher and a student, you're even less informed than I originally believed.

    and I honestly believe that gun haters often love massacres that can be used to emotionally stir up the masses against gun ownership
    And I honestly believe your statement is disgusting, because I find nothing worse than a child being murdered. The fact we disagree on how to protect them should never be a reason to suggest I want to see innocent people murdered. All such a statement does is show you to be a person I really hope I never have to meet.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    The problem you and I are having here is we're making different assumptions about the situation before we even read eachother's posts. I'm picturing a compact or sub-compact pistol concealed-carried in the pant pocket, under a tucked shirt, in an ankle holster, or in a shoulder holster if the teacher is wearing, say, a sport jacket. How would the student even know you were armed in the first place for it to be an issue?
    I'll give you one more chance, because your last two posts seemed to back off your incredibly offensive statements. I'll assume you feel somewhat apologetic for them. If not, let me know, and I'll go back to ignoring you again.

    And kids know. Kids find out things in ways I couldn't even describe. Whether it's a teacher was a stripper before the child was even born, or whether a teacher has a homosexual partner or whether a teacher is carrying a firearm, children know. As to how they could know this? A slip of the jacket, a security exercise where the same teacher is always leaving the classroom, a parent of one of the children seeing the teacher at a shooting range or even the teacher himself telling people are all possibilities.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    I mean, let's be honest, you never thought I had any credibility in the first place.
    Untrue. I thought your position of arming teachers had no credibility. I didn't know you at all to judge your personal credibility.

    I certainly never thought you had any.
    Which amazes me, considering, to the best of my knowledge, only one of us teaches in a K-12 school.

    Anti-gunners are wrong by default.
    On the contrary, theoretically, anti-gunners are correct by default. It's human interactions which reduce their percentage of correctness. I'll make you this promise. If I could remove every gun from existence and prevent anymore from being created, no one would ever again be shot by a gun. Do you dispute this logic?

    Now, is my theoretical realistic? Of course not. But you are wrong to say anti-gunners are wrong by default, because they are actually correct by default.

    Being anti-gun is identical to being racist in every way.
    It's not, actually. Race is not a choice. I didn't choose to be white anymore than my friend John chose to be black. You do, however, choose to own a gun. It's not the same thing.

    You support gun-free zones, I oppose them. We aren't ever going to agree, or even agree to disagree, because that means allowing the other to exist, and I seek your termination; the termination of all gun free zones.
    We may never agree, but you won't see me accusing you of wanting to give more people guns so they can gleefully kill more children.

    We may not agree, but we can at least have a civil discussion.


    Quote Originally Posted by Mycroft View Post
    I know I dismissed you, but I just have to comment on your inability to read and what that portends for the poor kids who expect you to teach them.

    You quoted me. You should re-read that quote...maybe a couple of times.

    I was talking about myself. I didn't say a single word about you asking me to apologize to you.


    I'm trying to decide if you really believe what you posted here, or if you are just trying to save face after being embarrassed by not remembering your own posts. I'm thinking it is probably the latter. Now why don't you run along and let us big people talk.
    Last edited by Slyfox696; 04-05-13 at 01:15 AM.

  3. #243
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    Re: NRA unveils plan for armed guards in schools it says 'will save lives'

    Quote Originally Posted by Slyfox696 View Post
    I'm trying to decide if you really believe what you posted here, or if you are just trying to save face after being embarrassed by not remembering your own posts. I'm thinking it is probably the latter. Now why don't you run along and let us big people talk.
    Yep...typical liberal/socialist debate tactic again: When my ass gets handed to me, the best course of action is to double down. Use the tactic again. Maybe they'll forget that I'm a dumbass.

    Sorry, dude. Every time you open your mouth, you remind us.
    TANSTAAFL

    “An armed society is a polite society.”
    ― Robert A. Heinlein, Beyond This Horizon

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    Re: NRA unveils plan for armed guards in schools it says 'will save lives'

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Honestly, I don't believe that. I work with some, and have many times in the past. I think some just try to convince themselves of that.
    By which you mean.... ?

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    Re: NRA unveils plan for armed guards in schools it says 'will save lives'

    Quote Originally Posted by Slyfox696 View Post
    I'll give you one more chance, because your last two posts seemed to back off your incredibly offensive statements. I'll assume you feel somewhat apologetic for them. If not, let me know, and I'll go back to ignoring you again.
    You people keep promising to keep me on your ignore list but you never do. You never ever do. You people keep clicking "view post" and then can't help yourself but to respond to something I say sooner or later.

    Quote Originally Posted by Slyfox696 View Post
    And kids know. Kids find out things in ways I couldn't even describe. Whether it's a teacher was a stripper before the child was even born, or whether a teacher has a homosexual partner or whether a teacher is carrying a firearm, children know. As to how they could know this? A slip of the jacket, a security exercise where the same teacher is always leaving the classroom, a parent of one of the children seeing the teacher at a shooting range or even the teacher himself telling people are all possibilities.
    So really, everything affects your relationship with every child. I'm not seeing anything unique about guns here. Do you want to just ban every negative thing a child could ever learn about the teacher?

    I'm gona brake a gun-culture rule here and level with you on handling: Guns are safe. We're talking about a gun in a holster. It's not gona fire. Relax. It's not going to fire. Even if bumped, even if the teacher is playing with the kids...it's a safe thing. Safer than a pocket knife, even, and I bet your school lets teachers have a pocket knife.

    You're freaking out over nothing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Slyfox696 View Post
    Which amazes me, considering, to the best of my knowledge, only one of us teaches in a K-12 school.
    Oh so if someone has never served in the military then they should stfu about Iraq and Afghanistan, right? I went to school, I have children in school, I have skin in the game. While in uniform I've even carried a loaded assault rifle in a highschool. And no that's not different from a civilian carrying the same rifle, because solders are the same people in and out of uniform; that's part of why people like to hire us, the discipline carries over.

    Quote Originally Posted by Slyfox696 View Post
    If I could remove every gun from existence and prevent anymore from being created, no one would ever again be shot by a gun. Do you dispute this logic?
    I do dispute it, actually, and not just to be snarky. You cannot remove every gun from existence and prevent anymore from being created. That is a false premise. That cannot ever occur. That is not a logically possible outcome.

    Quote Originally Posted by Slyfox696 View Post
    Now, is my theoretical realistic? Of course not.
    And that's why you're wrong be default: you're pursuing something which is impossible. That liberality cannot ever happen. Guns are used in many other applications than weaponry. You can no sooner dis-invent the gun than the wheel or lever.

    Quote Originally Posted by Slyfox696 View Post
    It's not, actually. Race is not a choice. I didn't choose to be white anymore than my friend John chose to be black. You do, however, choose to own a gun. It's not the same thing.
    You do not choose to be shot at. When you are shot at, you have the right to defend yourself.

    You had your gun-free zone in Sandy Hook. 20 dead children are the result of your kind of laws. In contrast, no student has ever been harmed by a teacher legally carrying a gun in states which already allow it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Slyfox696 View Post
    We may not agree, but we can at least have a civil discussion.
    You're supporting the laws which killed 20 children in Sandy Hook. You are being offensive and disrespectful simply be taking the anti-gun pov.

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    Re: NRA unveils plan for armed guards in schools it says 'will save lives'

    Why stop with schools?

    Let's have armed guards everywhere, at the mall, at your place of work or business, at restaraunts and all Denny's Diners (especially Denny's)

    That way we can save ourselves from living in a fascist society.

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    Re: NRA unveils plan for armed guards in schools it says 'will save lives'

    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post
    Why stop with schools?

    Let's have armed guards everywhere, at the mall, at your place of work or business, at restaraunts and all Denny's Diners (especially Denny's)

    That way we can save ourselves from living in a fascist society.
    Next thing you know they'll let Blacks drink from the same fountain as Whites!

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    Re: NRA unveils plan for armed guards in schools it says 'will save lives'

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    Next thing you know they'll let Blacks drink from the same fountain as Whites!
    And Gays Will Have The Vote!

    What a world that would be.

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    Re: NRA unveils plan for armed guards in schools it says 'will save lives'

    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post
    And Gays Will Have The Vote!
    God I hope not. What's next? They open the border and release a floodgate of dirty Canadians into the country. Next thing you know we'll all be drinking nasty beer and marveling over the manliness of full-contact ice skating.

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    Re: NRA unveils plan for armed guards in schools it says 'will save lives'

    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post
    Why stop with schools?

    Let's have armed guards everywhere, at the mall, at your place of work or business, at restaraunts and all Denny's Diners (especially Denny's)

    That way we can save ourselves from living in a fascist society.
    There's a funny thing about trying to use hyperbole. Some times reality makes your hyperbole look a bit foolish.

    Customer, armed robbers engage in shootout | News - Home
    TANSTAAFL

    “An armed society is a polite society.”
    ― Robert A. Heinlein, Beyond This Horizon

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