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Thread: Texas DA, wife killed -- 2 months after his deputy is gunned down [W:627]

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    re: Texas DA, wife killed -- 2 months after his deputy is gunned down [W:627]

    Quote Originally Posted by Gimmesometruth View Post
    You are limiting the definition to one aspect, ignoring the rest while still trying to compare them to totalitarian systems.

    You have already conceded that the AB is NOT "left-wing", so what are they? Centrist? I don't think so, they favor radical segregation, they view the white race as superior, they have a extreme hierarchy/class structure. You have to take all of their POLITICAL characteristics together to place them on a political map.
    That's just it. They are not political.

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    re: Texas DA, wife killed -- 2 months after his deputy is gunned down [W:627]

    Quote Originally Posted by calamity View Post
    The Link also highlights the grey areas. In this respect, the AB definitely do not fit the mold in that they do not really cover the gamut. While they are anti-pluralistic, white supremacists with some respect for the authoritarianism within their internal hierarchy, they are not exactly nationalistic, anti-globalists or protectionists--hell, half of them probably don't even know what those terms mean.
    Yes, there are grey areas. The link also points out that scholars disagree as to the exact definition of "far right", as well as terms like "extremism" and "radicalism". That's because political science isn't a hard science. However, that doesn't mean that we should disregard everything they have to say.

    And yes, AB doesn't hit all the points they mention, but if you look at the issue you'll see that no group meets all of the criteria. Should you then conclude that there are no rightwing (or leftwing) groups? I don't think so.

    I think that reasonable people, such as you and I, can look at the various definitions and discern some common elements and decide for ourselves if (and to what degree) AB conforms to those common elements. Given AB's extreme beliefs in innate differences that justify a hierarchy with whites on top, their belief that these innate differences are the result of a natural order, and that this order is "ordained by God", I believe that they can safely be included under the term "far right".

    Add in their racism, xenophobia, anti-democracy, anti-communism, anti-pluralism, and belief in a strong (albeit currently non-existent) state and we have a home run.
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

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    re: Texas DA, wife killed -- 2 months after his deputy is gunned down [W:627]

    Quote Originally Posted by calamity View Post
    The Link also highlights the grey areas. In this respect, the AB definitely do not fit the mold in that they do not really cover the gamut. While they are anti-pluralistic, white supremacists with some respect for the authoritarianism within their internal hierarchy, they are not exactly nationalistic, anti-globalists or protectionists--hell, half of them probably don't even know what those terms mean.
    "nationalism, racism, xenophobia, anti-democracy and the belief in a strong state"

    Uh, 4 out of 5.....and yet you still argue they are not right wing......shrug.
    Quote Originally Posted by trouble13 View Post
    If you wanna know why Trumpsters are ignoring you its for the same reason you ignored the KKKs complaints about Obama.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moderate Right View Post
    When it comes down to it, all facts are cherry picked.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    He didn't say it didn't make sense. He said it is complete nonsense.

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    re: Texas DA, wife killed -- 2 months after his deputy is gunned down [W:627]

    Quote Originally Posted by calamity View Post
    You're going with one shoe-fits-all. Lumping all the racists into the RW because they are submissive to authority while ignoring that they are not nationalists nor have any opinions on economic systems in any way shape or form is a huge reach. By your definitions, the AB are as RW as is North Korea. Both are xenophobic racist regimes run from the top down, severely punishing those who do not fall in line.
    I think it is mistake to think that nationalism is required in order to be rightwing. And while AB hasn't explicitly stated an economic ideology, I think it's clear that they are capitalistic
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

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    re: Texas DA, wife killed -- 2 months after his deputy is gunned down [W:627]

    Quote Originally Posted by calamity View Post
    That's just it. They are not political.
    But they are political. They have a worldview that explicitly describes how the world should be ruled and why
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

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    re: Texas DA, wife killed -- 2 months after his deputy is gunned down [W:627]

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    Yes, there are grey areas. The link also points out that scholars disagree as to the exact definition of "far right", as well as terms like "extremism" and "radicalism". That's because political science isn't a hard science. However, that doesn't mean that we should disregard everything they have to say.

    And yes, AB doesn't hit all the points they mention, but if you look at the issue you'll see that no group meets all of the criteria. Should you then conclude that there are no rightwing (or leftwing) groups? I don't think so.

    I think that reasonable people, such as you and I, can look at the various definitions and discern some common elements and decide for ourselves if (and to what degree) AB conforms to those common elements. Given AB's extreme beliefs in innate differences that justify a hierarchy with whites on top, their belief that these innate differences are the result of a natural order, and that this order is "ordained by God", I believe that they can safely be included under the term "far right".

    Add in their racism, xenophobia, anti-democracy, anti-communism, anti-pluralism, and belief in a strong (albeit currently non-existent) state and we have a home run.
    If they were not a purely criminal organization, I would agree. If they at all expressed violence in effort to move forward ideology, I would agree. Even if they took some of their criminal money and used some of their gangster power to be political, advance the Aryan agenda, I would have agreed. But they do none of it. In fact, just the opposite, they form an alliance with Mexican gangs.

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    re: Texas DA, wife killed -- 2 months after his deputy is gunned down [W:627]

    Quote Originally Posted by calamity View Post
    That's just it. They are not political.
    They are not political in what sense? You keep pulling out of the discussion with comments like this. I never claimed they were running for office, if that is what you are now going for.

    The question was what, when one examines their stated POLITICAL beliefs, political positions they hold.

    You are trying to reduce down the discussion you resurrected. Nearly any organization, especially when they openly declare poli-sci positions, can be placed on a political map. You already removed them from the left wing camp......so you have made some kind of decision of what they are politically.
    Quote Originally Posted by trouble13 View Post
    If you wanna know why Trumpsters are ignoring you its for the same reason you ignored the KKKs complaints about Obama.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moderate Right View Post
    When it comes down to it, all facts are cherry picked.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    He didn't say it didn't make sense. He said it is complete nonsense.

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    re: Texas DA, wife killed -- 2 months after his deputy is gunned down [W:627]

    Quote Originally Posted by calamity View Post
    If they were not a purely criminal organization, I would agree. If they at all expressed violence in effort to move forward ideology, I would agree. Even if they took some of their criminal money and used some of their gangster power to be political, advance the Aryan agenda, I would have agreed. But they do none of it. In fact, just the opposite, they form an alliance with Mexican gangs.
    They are not a purely criminal organization. As I have repeatedly pointed out to you, they have engaged in political crimes that had no economic motive and have a political ideology.

    However, there is nothing I can do to convince some who is determined to ignore the evidence of these political crimes.
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

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    re: Texas DA, wife killed -- 2 months after his deputy is gunned down [W:627]

    Calamity, I hope you are familiar with the concept of a political map, where one axis describes economic beliefs and the other axis describes social freedom? Since we have little to go as far as economic beliefs (though one could argue they operate with a extreme libertarian view, ie no govt interference), we have to place them primarily on social standards. Clearly, they fall on the extreme right.

    bothaxes.jpg
    Last edited by Gimmesometruth; 04-02-13 at 02:13 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by trouble13 View Post
    If you wanna know why Trumpsters are ignoring you its for the same reason you ignored the KKKs complaints about Obama.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moderate Right View Post
    When it comes down to it, all facts are cherry picked.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    He didn't say it didn't make sense. He said it is complete nonsense.

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    re: Texas DA, wife killed -- 2 months after his deputy is gunned down [W:627]

    Quote Originally Posted by Gimmesometruth View Post
    They are not political in what sense? You keep pulling out of the discussion with comments like this. I never claimed they were running for office, if that is what you are now going for.

    The question was what, when one examines their stated POLITICAL beliefs, political positions they hold.

    You are trying to reduce down the discussion you resurrected. Nearly any organization, especially when they openly declare poli-sci positions, can be placed on a political map. You already removed them from the left wing camp......so you have made some kind of decision of what they are politically.
    In that I can easily define what they are not. Yes. But, they are not like McVeigh or even Koresh, in that their political objectives are on the table. They are apolitical, but they do fall into several Right Wing categories.

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