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Thread: Texas DA, wife killed -- 2 months after his deputy is gunned down [W:627]

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    re: Texas DA, wife killed -- 2 months after his deputy is gunned down [W:627]

    Quote Originally Posted by calamity View Post
    If definging RW boils down to that, then yes. But, the RW aren't usually drug dealing criminal enterprises..unless they are Reagan's CIA.
    I've made it clear that I do not believe it's that simple, but the post I was responded to defined it that way, and I merely demonstrated how AB fit the definition that he posted.

    And the definition of rightwing does not exclude drug dealing or any other illegal activity. In fact, the definition of "far right" could be read as requiring illegal activity (at least, activity that you and I would agree should be illegal)
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

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    re: Texas DA, wife killed -- 2 months after his deputy is gunned down [W:627]

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    I've made it clear that I do not believe it's that simple, but the post I was responded to defined it that way, and I merely demonstrated how AB fit the definition that he posted.

    And the definition of rightwing does not exclude drug dealing or any other illegal activity. In fact, the definition of "far right" could be read as requiring illegal activity (at least, activity that you and I would agree should be illegal)
    I guess I would see it more clearly if the AB blew up Black Churches or something. But, shooting white prosecutors in Texas just doesn't strike me as white-supremacists getting their politics on.

    Nonetheless, systematically shooting officers of the court which is investigating your group is a terrorist action, no doubt. Thus the only thing open for debate is if the AB are a Right Wing org. On that, it seems that the only thing we know for sure is that they certainly are not Left Wing.

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    re: Texas DA, wife killed -- 2 months after his deputy is gunned down [W:627]

    Quote Originally Posted by calamity View Post
    I guess I would see it more clearly if the AB blew up Black Churches or something. But, shooting white prosecutors in Texas just doesn't strike me as white-supremacists getting their politics on.

    Nonetheless, systematically shooting officers of the court which is investigating your group is a terrorist action, no doubt. Thus the only thing open for debate is if the AB are a Right Wing org. On that, it seems that the only thing we know for sure is that they certainly are not Left Wing.

    First, the definition:
    Quote Originally Posted by Gimmesometruth View Post

    Right-wing authoritarianism is defined by three attitudinal and behavioral clusters which correlate together:[12][13]
    Authoritarian submission a high degree of submissiveness to the authorities who are perceived to be established and legitimate in the society in which one lives.
    Authoritarian aggression a general aggressiveness directed against deviants, outgroups, and other people that are perceived to be targets according to established authorities.
    Conventionalism a high degree of adherence to the traditions and social norms that are perceived to be endorsed by society and its established authorities, and a belief that others in one's society should also be required to adhere to these norms
    Next, the example:
    TO ALL Brothers who have been chosen to stand, lead, follow, and obey, as one in sincere unity with all the laws and ways of the supreme Aryan Brotherhood of the state of Mississippi the following is our law, code, and orders:
    (1-A) An ARYAN BROTHER is one who shows, gives, and demands his respect where it is due and upholds every moral principle and value of and for all the Elite White Aryan Race...
    (2-B) Once a chosen prospect has become a full Brother to the brand he will hold that title until his very death. Whether his death be of honor and loyalty to the Brotherhood, or of Dishonor and without loyalty. It is of his own choosing. For that very dishonor and un-loyalty may be the very cause of his death...

    (7-A) The Aryan Brotherhood constitution will be read by all prospects at the time of becoming a Brother. Under no circumstances shall the A.B.'s constitution be ignored, neglected, disrespected or used in slander by anyone for any insult is certain of IMMEDIATE DEATH!!!

    From a list of AB 'characteristics'
    a) Awareness of your surroundings and environment at all times
    b) Belief in and of the racial purity of the white race
    c) Mental stability
    d) Efficiency in acquiring further knowledge
    e) Family oriented for your race
    f) Genetically of European ancestry
    g) Honest in any and all Aryan Business
    h) Valuable to the Brotherhood
    i) Willingness to be supportive of the Brotherhood outside prison
    j) Pact-Bound
    k) Strong Willed
    l) Obedient of all known Aryan Laws
    m) Noble and superior in Nature
    n) Keeper of information
    And the analysis and explanation:

    Quote Originally Posted by Gimmesometruth View Post
    I know you are not drinking, so why again, ask me to water you?

    The Submission demand is self evident in the VERY FIRST LINE, the convetionalism is throughout when describing the implicit superiority of the white-euro race....but you are not drinking....so this is pointless.
    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    Authoritarian Submission - read 1(A), 2(B) and 7(A) again

    Conventionalism - 1(A), b, e, f and m
    Quote Originally Posted by trouble13 View Post
    If you wanna know why Trumpsters are ignoring you its for the same reason you ignored the KKKs complaints about Obama.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moderate Right View Post
    When it comes down to it, all facts are cherry picked.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    He didn't say it didn't make sense. He said it is complete nonsense.

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    re: Texas DA, wife killed -- 2 months after his deputy is gunned down [W:627]

    Quote Originally Posted by Gimmesometruth View Post
    First, the definition:

    Next, the example:


    And the analysis and explanation:
    Pretty good. I did not know that adherence to the authoritarian makes the wingnut. Of course, you do know? THat this now makes Stalin's old regime Right Wing, and it makes China Right Wing and, lets not forget North Korea, those are some submissive followers of authoritarian rule over there with "Dear Leader", they are now Right Wing too.

    I'm not buying what you're selling.
    Last edited by calamity; 04-02-13 at 01:07 PM.

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    re: Texas DA, wife killed -- 2 months after his deputy is gunned down [W:627]

    Quote Originally Posted by calamity View Post
    I guess I would see it more clearly if the AB blew up Black Churches or something. But, shooting white prosecutors in Texas just doesn't strike me as white-supremacists getting their politics on.
    And that shooting very well might not be politically motivated. However, that doesn't mean that every crime they have committed had no political motive.

    The fact is, they *have* committed politically motivated crimes. They were documented in the SDLC link I posted last night.


    Nonetheless, systematically shooting officers of the court which is investigating your group is a terrorist action, no doubt. Thus the only thing open for debate is if the AB are a Right Wing org. On that, it seems that the only thing we know for sure is that they certainly are not Left Wing.
    I agree that once it becomes more than a single instance, it represents a pattern of intimidating the govt, which is terrorism.

    As far as rightwing, read the definition at Wiki (which is a fairly good one IMO) and see if it fits AB

    Far-right politics - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    The far-right (also known as the extreme right) refers to the highest degree of rightism in right-wing politics. Far right politics involves support of strong or complete social hierarchy in society, and supports supremacy of certain individuals or groups deemed to be innately superior who are to be more valued than those deemed to be innately inferior.[1]
    There's more at the link.
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

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    re: Texas DA, wife killed -- 2 months after his deputy is gunned down [W:627]

    Quote Originally Posted by calamity View Post
    Pretty good. I did not know that adherence to the authoritarian makes the wingnut. Of course, you do know? THat this now makes Stalin's old regime Right Wing, and it makes China Right Wing and, lets not forget North Korea, those are some submissive followers of authoritarian rule over there with "Dear Leader", they are now Right Wing too.

    I'm not buying what you're selling.
    To be fair, the definition of Right Wing Authoritarianism is based on psychological research and is loosely based on specific political positions. It is not meant as a complete definition of all things rightwing, but rather, one aspect (or maybe "genre" is a better word) of right wingerism.

    As far as Russia and China go, the only thing "left wing" about them was their economic ideology, which they rarely followed. In leftwing economic ideology, the "people" control the means of production. This did not hold true in either Russia or China.

    It is only because of the misguided notion that right means "small govt" and left means anything to do with "collectivism" that so many americans equate "right" with "conservative" and "left" with socialism. In Russia, the "conservatives" are those who want to return to Socialist govt.
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

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    re: Texas DA, wife killed -- 2 months after his deputy is gunned down [W:627]

    Quote Originally Posted by calamity View Post
    Pretty good. I did not know that adherence to the authoritarian makes the wingnut. Of course, you do know? THat this now makes Stalin's old regime Right Wing, and it makes China Right Wing and, lets not forget North Korea, those are some submissive followers of authoritarian rule over there with "Dear Leader", they are now Right Wing too.

    I'm not buying what you're selling.
    Everything that Sangha said....with the addition that I thought you wanted to discuss the AB, not China or Stalin.

    Lets keep the focus upon whether the AB falls into the RWA category. If you can show how they do not fit within the definition, fine, but you did not.
    Quote Originally Posted by trouble13 View Post
    If you wanna know why Trumpsters are ignoring you its for the same reason you ignored the KKKs complaints about Obama.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moderate Right View Post
    When it comes down to it, all facts are cherry picked.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    He didn't say it didn't make sense. He said it is complete nonsense.

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    re: Texas DA, wife killed -- 2 months after his deputy is gunned down [W:627]

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    And that shooting very well might not be politically motivated. However, that doesn't mean that every crime they have committed had no political motive.

    The fact is, they *have* committed politically motivated crimes. They were documented in the SDLC link I posted last night.




    I agree that once it becomes more than a single instance, it represents a pattern of intimidating the govt, which is terrorism.

    As far as rightwing, read the definition at Wiki (which is a fairly good one IMO) and see if it fits AB

    Far-right politics - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



    There's more at the link.
    The Link also highlights the grey areas. In this respect, the AB definitely do not fit the mold in that they do not really cover the gamut. While they are anti-pluralistic, white supremacists with some respect for the authoritarianism within their internal hierarchy, they are not exactly nationalistic, anti-globalists or protectionists--hell, half of them probably don't even know what those terms mean.
    ...different scholars disagree as to the number and combination of ideological features that qualify a party as right-wing extremist as well as the different typologies used to distinguish between parties within this family. According to Christina Liang, this "academic field is especially peculiar about its terminology. Each label carries with it a specific understanding of this family of political parties as well as a particular set of assumptions regarding their origins and electoral success".[19] In an extensive survey of the literature, academic Cas Mudde found 26 definitions of right-wing extremism that contained 57 different ideological features.[20] Alongside the theoretical debate concerning the nature of these parties there is also an empirical debate concerning who speaks for right-wing extremist parties and how to measure their ideology given that many reject the right-wing extremist label being applied to them.

    One issue when it comes to terminology is whether parties should be labelled "radical" or "extreme",[21] a distinction that is made by the German Federal Constitutional Court when determining whether a party can be banned. Another question is the what the label "right" implies when applied to the extreme right, given that many parties labelled as right-wing extremist tended to advance neo-liberal and free market agendas as late as the 1980s but can now advocate economic policies more traditionally associated with the left, such as anti-globalisation, nationalisation and protectionism. One approach, drawing on the writings of Norberto Bobbio, argues that attitudes towards equality are what distinguish between left and right and therefore allow these parties to be positioned on the right of the political spectrum. There is also debate about how appropriate the labels fascist or neo-fascist are. According to Cas Mudde, "the labels Neo-Nazi and to a lesser extent neo-fascism are now used exclusively for parties and groups that explicitly state a desire to restore the Third Reich or quote historical National Socialism as their ideological influence". [21]
    Jurgen Falter and Siegfried Schumann define right-wing extremism with reference to ten ideological features which they believe constitutes a core extreme right ideology, including hyper-nationalism, ethnocentralism, anti-communism, anti-parliamentarianism and anti-pluralism.[22]

    Cas Mudde identified five key features – nationalism, racism, xenophobia, anti-democracy and the belief in a strong state – based on the fact that they appear in 50% of the definitions of the extreme-right that he surveyed.[23] However, in later writings he revisited his earlier assessment and argued in favour of a definition based upon three features: authoritarianism, populism and nativism.

    According to Elizabeth Carter, the two defining features of a right-wing extremist party are: a rejection of fundamental human equality, which she asserts is what makes the party right-wing,[24] and a rejection of the fundamental democratic values of the state, which makes it extremist.

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    re: Texas DA, wife killed -- 2 months after his deputy is gunned down [W:627]

    Quote Originally Posted by Gimmesometruth View Post
    Everything that Sangha said....with the addition that I thought you wanted to discuss the AB, not China or Stalin.

    Lets keep the focus upon whether the AB falls into the RWA category. If you can show how they do not fit within the definition, fine, but you did not.
    You're going with one shoe-fits-all. Lumping all the racists into the RW because they are submissive to authority while ignoring that they are not nationalists nor have any opinions on economic systems in any way shape or form is a huge reach. By your definitions, the AB are as RW as is North Korea. Both are xenophobic racist regimes run from the top down, severely punishing those who do not fall in line.

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    re: Texas DA, wife killed -- 2 months after his deputy is gunned down [W:627]

    Quote Originally Posted by calamity View Post
    You're going with one shoe-fits-all. Lumping all the racists into the RW because they are submissive to authority while ignoring that they are not nationalists nor have any opinions on economic systems in any way shape or form is a huge reach. By your definitions, the AB are as RW as is North Korea. Both are racist regimes run from the top down.
    You are limiting the definition to one aspect, ignoring the rest while still trying to compare them to totalitarian systems.

    You have already conceded that the AB is NOT "left-wing", so what are they? Centrist? I don't think so, they favor radical segregation, they view the white race as superior, they have a extreme hierarchy/class structure. You have to take all of their POLITICAL characteristics together to place them on a political map.

    Quote Originally Posted by calamity View Post
    The Link also highlights the grey areas. In this respect, the AB definitely do not fit the mold in that they do not really cover the gamut. While they are anti-pluralistic, white supremacists with some respect for the authoritarianism within their internal hierarchy, they are not exactly nationalistic, anti-globalists or protectionists--hell, half of them probably don't even know what those terms mean.
    So if they do not contain ALL aspects of your definition of what is right wing, then they cannot be such? Is this like being a little bit pregnant?
    Last edited by Gimmesometruth; 04-02-13 at 01:45 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by trouble13 View Post
    If you wanna know why Trumpsters are ignoring you its for the same reason you ignored the KKKs complaints about Obama.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moderate Right View Post
    When it comes down to it, all facts are cherry picked.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    He didn't say it didn't make sense. He said it is complete nonsense.

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