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N. Korea threats raise concern Kim backing regime into corner

American said:
What the hell are all those ribbons for? It's not like they've been to battle in 60 years or something. Ever notice the generals, they cover the front and the back of their uniforms. Bunch of posers.
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"And this one's because I cried 1,000 tears when Kim Jong Il died, and this one is because I made other people cry 1,000 tears..."
 
What good is the UN if they arent able to stop the abuses going on in NK?
 
ludahai said:
Pay attention, stern warnings, and no more aid (the problem is that in the past, the US and the ROK has rewarded this behavior with aid)




True. But, they could still destroy Seoul and there isn't much we could do about. They can't sustain a war much beyond an initial thrust unless they get aid from the Chinese.



Agreed, though they don't have the numbers that the DPRK has and can't stop the DPRK from destroying Seoul.



I would tend to agree with this, which is why I think a limited attack like sinking a South Korean ship or shelling a disputed island is more likely.



Actually, it is because they don't know anything else. They have been brainwashed for decades.



He won't have to be overthrown. No Mussolini here. The USA would destroy him and the leadership in P'yongyang before it came to that.



Of course he doesn't.




Near zero chance he starts a large war, but a much greater chance he stages a limited engagement as mentioned above. Of course, that carries the risk, however small, of a mistake being made leading to escalation.



True. This holds assuming Kim and their military are rational actors.



It has in the past. They are hoping it will again. Hopefully Obama and Park will not give it this time.



Agreed.
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Whoa...this is way more detail then I want to get into on this...it just does not mean that much to me...no offense.

I think we are both on the same relative page on this.

Later.
 
North Korea crisis has 'gone too far' - UN chief Ban Ki-moon

The North Korea “crisis has already gone too far,” United Nations chief Ban Ki-moon said Tuesday after Pyongyang announced plans to restart its main Yongbyon nuclear complex.

“Nuclear threats are not a game. Aggressive rhetoric and military posturing only result in counter-actions, and fuel fear and instability," he said at a news conference in Andorra, where he was on an official visit.
North Korea crisis has 'gone too far' - UN chief Ban Ki-moon - World News
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But so what? The UN wont do anything. They never do. NK has been starving and enslaving people for decades, and what has the UN done? Send food which goes to their military,
 
specklebang said:
It's very hard to take NK seriously and there's not much we can do but wait
and see. Obviously, we have forces on the ground and nukes in the water and the air. We won't "lose" the fight.

But trying to predict crazy people is very hard. Pre-emptive isn't practical. So, nobody talks about ut much because...what can you say?
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I think they realise that, that its a losing proposition, but NK has so much artillery on the DMZ if the started it the casulties in Seoul would be catastrophic.

Not to mention the massive humanitarian nightmare that would come from refugees.
 
The consequences of a surprise attack on Seoul would be one of history's greatest murders. There are over 10 million people there.

Fenton said:
I think they realise that, that its a losing proposition, but NK has so much artillery on the DMZ if the started it the casulties in Seoul would be catastrophic.

Not to mention the massive humanitarian nightmare that would come from refugees.
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ludahai said:
And there is nothing we could do to prevent massive casualties.
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Kill the leadership, take out communications, and at the same time destroy nearly all of their artillery in the first strike. South Korea should also be building an iron dome.
 
jonny5 said:
Kill the leadership, take out communications, and at the same time destroy nearly all of their artillery in the first strike. South Korea should also be building an iron dome.
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1. Iron Dome only works against a very small number of missiles. It would do nothing against the barrage the DPRK could send at them.
2. The US will not make a first strike. First strike will be the DPRK. If that first strike is a concerted effort at Seoul, that city will suffer devestating damage, before the US bombed the DPRK into the stone age.
 
ludahai said:
1. Iron Dome only works against a very small number of missiles. It would do nothing against the barrage the DPRK could send at them.
2. The US will not make a first strike. First strike will be the DPRK. If that first strike is a concerted effort at Seoul, that city will suffer devestating damage, before the US bombed the DPRK into the stone age.
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Not necessarily. South Korea has drifted towards pre-emption.

Strike first if you suspect that the North will attack, Seoul tells generals

South Korea vowed yesterday that it would launch a pre-emptive attack against any imminent threat of nuclear or missile attack from North Korea, as the quarrel between the two enemies escalated.

The counter-threat, by the South’s new president, Park Geun Hye, and her defence minister, came after days of intensifying verbal menaces from North Korea and as the country’s puppet parliament, the Supreme People’s Assembly, met in the capital, Pyongyang.

“The reason for the military’s existence is to protect the country and the people from threats,” President Park said at South Korea’s defence ministry. “If any provocations happen against our people and our country, it should respond powerfully in the early stage without any political considerations.”

Ms Park has already authorised her commanders to respond immediately to North Korean provocation without prior consultation with the Government. “As commander-in-chief of the armed forces, I will trust the military’s judgment on abrupt and surprise provocations by North Korea, as it is the one that directly faces off against the North,” she said. “Please carry out your duty of guarding the safety of the people without getting distracted even a bit.”

Her defence minister, Kim Kwan Jin, made explicit the threat of pre-emptive retaliation if Pyongyang carried out its threat to use missiles or nuclear warheads against the South. “We will . . . establish a so-called ‘active deterrence’ aimed at neutralising the North’s nuclear and missile threats quickly.”

After the deployment of B2 stealth bombers last week, the US on Sunday sent F22 stealth fighter jets to take part in the extensive annual military exercises that the US and South Korea are presently conducting.

North Korea routinely denounces the exercises, codenamed Foal Eagle — but the level of verbal ferocity this year has reached levels unusual even by its own high standards.

After United Nations condemnation of its third nuclear test in February, the Government of the young leader, Kim Jong Un, has renounced the armistice that brought an end to the Korean War, cut off its hotlines with Seoul and threatened nuclear missile attack against the US mainland — a feat that foreign analysts agree is impossible, given the North’s existing levels of missile technology. On Saturday, the state media announced that North Korea was in a “state of war” as a result of the military exercises — although South Korea has not reported unusual military activity. Despite the headlines they have created around the world, the announcement did not lead North Korean television news.

Perhaps the strongest indication that Pyongyang is not ready for a complete breakdown in relations is its failure to interfere with the operation of a join industrial zone in the North Korean city of Kaesong, a source of valuable income for the impoverished regime.

“If the puppet traitor group continues to mention the Kaesong industrial zone is being kept operating and damages our dignity, it will be mercilessly shut off and shut down,” a statement on the state-run Korean Central News Agency said. But yesterday South Korean workers commuted across the border as usual.

Pyongyang knows that an attack on the US or its troops in the South would provoke a massive response that would overwhelm its huge, but ill-equipped, army and destroy Mr Kim’s Government. Much more likely is a smaller, surprise attack on South Korea of the kind that Pyongyang has got away with in the past.

Three years ago, 46 South Korean sailors died after the naval ship Cheonan was struck by what Seoul insists was a North Korean submarine-launched torpedo. Later in 2010 a North Korean artillery barrage killed four people on an island close to the sea border with the North.

Apart from brief retaliatory shelling of the artillery positions, the South made no military response to these attacks, and the South Korean president at the time, Lee Myung Bak, was widely criticised for displaying weakness. Ms Park, like her predecessor a political conservative, will not want to follow his example.

Yesterday in Pyongyang, North Korea convened the Supreme People’s Assembly, a notional parliament that does nothing more than publicly endorse decisions of the inner leadership. It appointed as premier Pak Pong Ju, who has a reputation as a reformer by North Korean standards.

He last held the post between 2003 and 2007 and oversaw a partial liberalisation of North Korea’s state-controlled farms.
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Strike first if you suspect that the North will attack, Seoul tells generals | The Times
 
Jango said:
Not necessarily. South Korea has drifted towards pre-emption.



Strike first if you suspect that the North will attack, Seoul tells generals | The Times
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Would love to believe they would do it, but I doubt they would. And even if they did, the ROK doesn't have the weapons to destroy the missile launchers quickly enough to prevent a highly destructive barrage on Seoul. And this could be dangerous as I expect the DPRK will only make another very limited attack. However, some trigger happy general could make a snap decision and regard it as a part of a larger attack. This makes the situation even more dangerous than it already is.
 
ludahai said:
1. Iron Dome only works against a very small number of missiles. It would do nothing against the barrage the DPRK could send at them.
2. The US will not make a first strike. First strike will be the DPRK. If that first strike is a concerted effort at Seoul, that city will suffer devestating damage, before the US bombed the DPRK into the stone age.
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Reagardless there is plenty that could be done. And theres other technologies besides Iron Dome that could be used to shoot down artillery. Our ships have some of them. Its just a matter of effort. Perhaps ROK should be doing something to encourage people to move away from Soeul.
 
jonny5 said:
Reagardless there is plenty that could be done. And theres other technologies besides Iron Dome that could be used to shoot down artillery. Our ships have some of them. Its just a matter of effort. Perhaps ROK should be doing something to encourage people to move away from Soeul.
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They have toyed with the idea of moving the national capital southward for some time. Seoul is hardly an historical center of the country (P'yongyang is much more a historical center than Seoul is) but the cost of making the move has often been cited as why they haven't done it.
 
ludahai said:
They have toyed with the idea of moving the national capital southward for some time. Seoul is hardly an historical center of the country (P'yongyang is much more a historical center than Seoul is) but the cost of making the move has often been cited as why they haven't done it.
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In any case, they have to do something. THey cant be living under this threat for another 50 years. And the US shouldnt have to deal with it for another 50 years. Assasinate Kim Jong Un if you have to and whoever replaced him, until someone who isnt crazy steps in.
 
jonny5 said:
Kill the leadership, take out communications, and at the same time destroy nearly all of their artillery in the first strike. South Korea should also be building an iron dome.
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jonny5 said:
In any case, they have to do something. THey cant be living under this threat for another 50 years. And the US shouldnt have to deal with it for another 50 years. Assasinate Kim Jong Un if you have to and whoever replaced him, until someone who isnt crazy steps in.
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You watch waaaaaaaaay to many action movies. This is real life, not "Die Hard" or "James Bond". None of those things would work without killing hundreds of thousands of South Koreans in the process.
 
The thing is, how does that little lunatic back down and still save face among his Countrymen/subjects after giving the go ahead for a pre-preemptive nuclear strike ? And my next question is has North Korea built a fusion bomb ?
 
Rep. Peter King: US could make preemptive strike on North Korea

Rep. Peter King (R-N.Y.) said Tuesday that the United States had the right to take preemptive military action against North Korea if there was "solid evidence" that Kim Jon Un planned to attack the U.S. or South Korea.

"If we have good reason to believe there's going to be an attack, I believe we have the right to take preemptive action," King said on CNN's "Erin Burnett Outfront."

"I don't think we have to wait until Americans are killed or wounded or injured in any way," he continued. "I'm not saying we should be rushing into war, don't get me wrong, but if we have solid evidence that North Korea's going to take action, then I think we have a moral obligation and an absolute right to defend ourselves."

Tensions in the region have deteriorated in recent weeks, with Pyongyang announcing Wednesday that it had barred South Korean workers from a jointly run industrial zone on the border between the two countries. That announcement came just a day after officials declared their intention to restart a shuttered nuclear reactor. North Korea has escalated tensions in recent weeks, declaring a "state of war" against South Korea and threatening to attack the United States.

North Korea's actions are thought to be driven by additional United Nations sanctions that resulted from its recent nuclear test. The United States has responded to Pyongyang's posturing with a series of military drills in the region, as well as a repositioning of naval ships in waters off the Korean peninsula.
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Rep. Peter King: US could make preemptive strike on North Korea - The Hill's Video
 
Fenton said:
The thing is, how does that little lunatic back down and still save face among his Countrymen/subjects after giving the go ahead for a pre-preemptive nuclear strike ? And my next question is has North Korea built a fusion bomb ?
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He will wait to escalations have died down with the US.....then some think he will make an attack on S. Korea. Shelling Islands, and or firing on another Ship like the Cheonan.

We know they have Nukes.....they also have Loads of Chemical Weapons and Lasers.
 
Kim Jong Un has put his country in a very difficult position. His propaganda machine may be talking some tough talk, but I doubt he can walk the walk. One, two, three nukes does NOT make a super-power. Moreover, he doesn't have an airforce worth a damn nor a Navy that can compete with the U.S. His only hope is to pull another country into his mess - China and/or the USSR - and hope he can get the rest of the world (well, the really anti-American radical side anyway) to side with him should the American government jump the gun and launch a pre-emptive strike. Problem there is any move NKOR makes that gives even the slightest appearance of hostilities towards SKOR, any U.S. territory or one of its allies will demand a swift response. In short, if anyone from NKOR as much as tosses a rock in the direction of SKOR there will be retaliation.

The key to keeping things relatively tame is China. NKOR knows it can't hope to defeat the U.S. on its own. It needs an ally. As long as China stays out of it, NKOR won't do a thing.
 
Objective Voice said:
Kim Jong Un has put his country in a very difficult position. His propaganda machine may be talking some tough talk, but I doubt he can walk the walk. One, two, three nukes does NOT make a super-power. Moreover, he doesn't have an airforce worth a damn nor a Navy that can compete with the U.S. His only hope is to pull another country into his mess - China and/or the USSR - and hope he can get the rest of the world (well, the really anti-American radical side anyway) to side with him should the American government jump the gun and launch a pre-emptive strike. Problem there is any move NKOR makes that gives even the slightest appearance of hostilities towards SKOR, any U.S. territory or one of its allies will demand a swift response. In short, if anyone from NKOR as much as tosses a rock in the direction of SKOR there will be retaliation.

The key to keeping things relatively tame is China. NKOR knows it can't hope to defeat the U.S. on its own. It needs an ally. As long as China stays out of it, NKOR won't do a thing.
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NKorea has an Air Force and they also have 40 Subs.....not counting mini's or Human torpedoes.
 
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