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Thread: Amanda Knox retrial...

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    Re: Amanda Knox retrial...

    Quote Originally Posted by NoC_T View Post
    I'm not Italian. As for corruption, tell it to Rodney King.

    You'll send her. If not, America stands to lose it's moral authority, pertaining to future extraditions of terrorists. Your government would never sanction such a refusal. Sorry, but she's screwed.

    P.S. Foxy Knoxy makes my penis go Bing! Bing! Bing!
    Now isn't this funny. Its perfectly OK for other countries to refuse extradition to the US but when the shoe is on the other foot? We damn well better uphold an extradition!
    Last edited by Kal'Stang; 03-27-13 at 06:36 AM.
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    Re: Amanda Knox retrial...

    Quote Originally Posted by Your Star View Post
    Can't the US just say um **** you to Italy? Just don't extradite her.
    That's the other messed up part of this. They are going to hold the trial whether she is there or not.
    I have an answer for everything...you may not like the answer or it may not satisfy your curiosity..but it will still be an answer. ~ Kal'Stang

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    Re: Amanda Knox retrial...

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    Did you even read the article?
    your link had a video and a few words beneath it. And the response I gave earlier is still valid. They are not going to be re-charged with the same crime. The trial in which they were first found guilty, then acquitted and now appealed and overturned and thus having to be re-tried is one and the same case. And because it still remains the same case and the same charge as before it is not double jeopardy.
    Former military man (and now babysitter of Donald Trump) John Kelly, is a big loud lying empty barrel!

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    Re: Amanda Knox retrial...

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    Now isn't this funny. Its perfectly OK for other countries to refuse extradition to the US but when the shoe is on the other foot? We damn well better uphold an extradition!
    I hope you don't mean us. We gave you Hamza, despite massive pressure to refuse.

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    Re: Amanda Knox retrial...

    Well, it is italy's law and US rules about things like this do not apply to their justice system. You have to obey other country's laws when you go there, just like it should be illegal for a visitor to this country to act outside of US laws. Of course, italy screwed up and let her go despite having a continued trial going on. They had their bite at the apple and now let her go. Why is it the job of the US to be bothered with their legal system and someone they allowed to leave their country before everything was settled? I could see giving her over if she ran to the US to avoid trial, but she did not avoid trial and jail time, they let her go with the freedom to return to the US.

    What i really see happening is them facing some public backlash over releasing her so they are going to have another trial without her there and declare her guilty effectively keeping her out of the country because she would be arrested if she ever returned. That way they get to pretend they did something, and pretend the US is the bad guy for protecting her, while never making any real effort to get her back. Plus, being convicted of a crime would probably keep her from entering into other foreign countries. So they are pretty much going to strike at her international reputation because she would be a complete idiot to return to face the murder charges when it seems pretty clear the court is now out to get her. I hope she enjoyed her foreign vacation because it will probably be the last one she goes on.

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    Re: Amanda Knox retrial...

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    That's the other messed up part of this. They are going to hold the trial whether she is there or not.
    they will do the same in the US also. Granted you would probably get an appeal if caught after being tried while absent, but it does happen.

    Wiki has a nice article explaining some of the reasons why and limitations on trying a person in absentia in the US.

    In absentia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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    Re: Amanda Knox retrial...

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter King View Post
    your link had a video and a few words beneath it. And the response I gave earlier is still valid. They are not going to be re-charged with the same crime. The trial in which they were first found guilty, then acquitted and now appealed and overturned and thus having to be re-tried is one and the same case. And because it still remains the same case and the same charge as before it is not double jeopardy.
    Wrong. They had 2 seperate trials before. One in which she was found guilty and sent to prison. And then the second trial was via the appeals process, that one she was acquitted in. You can't have an appeals process unless there was a conclusion to a previous trial in a court system. And you cannot have an acquittal in the middle of a trial, it is always at the end of a trial. Now they are starting up another trial in which the same charges are being laid, IE Double Jeapordy. It is not one huge single trial.
    I have an answer for everything...you may not like the answer or it may not satisfy your curiosity..but it will still be an answer. ~ Kal'Stang

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    Re: Amanda Knox retrial...

    Just leave her alone already.

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    Re: Amanda Knox retrial...

    Quote Originally Posted by tererun View Post
    they will do the same in the US also. Granted you would probably get an appeal if caught after being tried while absent, but it does happen.

    Wiki has a nice article explaining some of the reasons why and limitations on trying a person in absentia in the US.

    In absentia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Yes the US does do this, but only under very strict conditions having been met.
    I have an answer for everything...you may not like the answer or it may not satisfy your curiosity..but it will still be an answer. ~ Kal'Stang

    My mind and my heart are saying I'm in my twenties. My body is pointing at my mind and heart and laughing its ass off. ~ Kal'Stang

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    Re: Amanda Knox retrial...

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    Wrong. They had 2 seperate trials before. One in which she was found guilty and sent to prison. And then the second trial was via the appeals process, that one she was acquitted in. You can't have an appeals process unless there was a conclusion to a previous trial in a court system. And you cannot have an acquittal in the middle of a trial, it is always at the end of a trial. Now they are starting up another trial in which the same charges are being laid, IE Double Jeapordy. It is not one huge single trial.
    Not wrong, you are trying to explain to a Dutch person, with a not dissimilar system as Italy has how appeals and higher appeals go and failing miserably.

    In the Netherlands and Italy you can be tried and both the suspect and the prosecution (if they disagree with the result of the trial in verdict or punishment given) they can appeal the trial and the same case will be redone in a higher court in which both the prosecution and the suspect can make their case for acquittal or conviction. This is not a new trial/double jeopardy but the same case just in a higher court.

    In the Netherlands and in Italy you can appeal your court case and bump it to a higher court, this is not double jeopardy because no new case if filed with the court hence no double jeopardy. It maybe different in the US but in the Netherlands and from what I know a verdict is final only if the entire appeals process have been run through or when no appeal is called for within the time frame within the appeal can be requested.

    For example, in a murder case with case number 1001 (armed robbery where a bank employee is killed) a suspect is found guilty for manslaughter and robbery and sentenced to 12 years. The DA is of the opinion that their evidence warranted a conviction for murder and the 20 years they asked for and within the time period allowed for this (normally one waits until the written justification of the verdict has been filed with the court before doing so) the DA appeals.

    Then the same case 1001 will be re-heard by a higher court, this time the court does agree with the DA and sentences the suspect to 18 years in jail. This time the suspect who was convicted disagrees and asks for review (cassatie in Dutch) by the highest court in the Netherlands. Only if this higher court agrees that the sentence is fair and just (they do not look at the evidence itself but at the process and the way the law was interpreted by the higher court) the case if done and the verdict final. But, for arguments sake the highest court finds that the lower court did not interpret the law correctly, they then vacate the sentence of 18 years and send the case back to the lower court. This time the trial of case 1001 ends in a the court this time finding manslaughter with aggravating circumstances and sentences the suspect again to 18 years. The suspect again appeals within the time period allowed for this and this time the supreme court decides that the court used the correct laws and descriptions to convict and the case if final.

    At that moment and that moment alone the case with case number 1001 is over.


    Now the other way around, in a murder case with case number 1002 (child kidnapping, rape and murder) a suspect is found guilty of child abduction, rape and murder and is sentenced to 18 years plus TBS (mental incarceration until the court is convinced that the mental disease that has lead to the suspect doing this crime is found to be cured). The DA is a happy camper and decides he will not appeal, he asked for 20 years plus TBS but can live with the 18 years given. This time the suspect appeals within the time allowed for appealing because he does not want to be sentenced to TBS (which could keep him in jail for life) and in a higher court is again found guilty and they again convict to 18 years and TBS. The suspect however says he is not crazy and does not want TBS on top of his 18 years in jail.

    The supreme court reviews the case and disagrees with the suspect and says that the TBS sentence is upheld.

    At that moment and that moment alone the case with case number 1002 is over.

    That is how our and the Italian legal system works, it may not be your legal system but as before, this is still not a case of double jeopardy because the original case is still running.
    Former military man (and now babysitter of Donald Trump) John Kelly, is a big loud lying empty barrel!

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