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Thread: 5 possible outcomes of the Supreme Court Prop. 8 case

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    Re: 5 possible outcomes of the Supreme Court Prop. 8 case

    Quote Originally Posted by longknife View Post
    Let's face it, SSM ISN'T really about the rights of two people of the same sex to form a bond.

    It's about $$$$$!

    It's all about legal definitions whereby a couple may qualify for government and insurance benefits. That's what SCOTUS has to determine. That and the right of individual states to determine that legal definition.
    That is one of the more ignorant things said in this thread. Money is the least of the issues that involve marriage.
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    Re: 5 possible outcomes of the Supreme Court Prop. 8 case

    Quote Originally Posted by longknife View Post
    Let's face it, SSM ISN'T really about the rights of two people of the same sex to form a bond.

    It's about $$$$$!

    It's all about legal definitions whereby a couple may qualify for government and insurance benefits. That's what SCOTUS has to determine. That and the right of individual states to determine that legal definition.
    It's about both, and more.
    Nobody who wins a war indulges in a bifurcated definition of victory. War is a political act; victory and defeat have meaning only in political terms. A country incapable of achieving its political objectives at an acceptable cost is losing the war, regardless of battlefield events.

    Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.

    All the same, it's nonsense. To paraphrase Vince Lombardi, show me a political loser, and I'll show you a loser.
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    Re: 5 possible outcomes of the Supreme Court Prop. 8 case

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    The question before the court is whether it was legal to uphold that "tradition". Voters do not get to vote to break the law.
    I understand that, although I don't think it's breaking the law to uphold the traditional definition and be forced to change it. I think the law breaking would come in violating a states rights and their constitutions. I view SSM as an issue of policy with it being legally changing the definition of marriage.
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    Re: 5 possible outcomes of the Supreme Court Prop. 8 case

    Quote Originally Posted by digsbe View Post
    I understand that, although I don't think it's breaking the law to uphold the traditional definition and be forced to change it. I think the law breaking would come in violating a states rights and their constitutions. I view SSM as an issue of policy with it being legally changing the definition of marriage.
    What about individual rights?

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    Re: 5 possible outcomes of the Supreme Court Prop. 8 case

    Quote Originally Posted by winston53660 View Post
    What about individual rights?
    Individuals have the right to speak, vote and amend their state constitutions/Federal Constitution. You don't have a right to change policy simply because you disagree with it or feel it violates your rights.
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    Re: 5 possible outcomes of the Supreme Court Prop. 8 case

    Quote Originally Posted by digsbe View Post
    Individuals have the right to speak, vote and amend their state constitutions/Federal Constitution. You don't have a right to change policy simply because you disagree with it or feel it violates your rights.
    WOW the State has more rights than the individual. That is pretty damn scary.

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    Re: 5 possible outcomes of the Supreme Court Prop. 8 case

    Quote Originally Posted by winston53660 View Post
    WOW the State has more rights than the individual. That is pretty damn scary.
    What's damn scary is saying voters have no rights to change and define legal terms in their constitution because some feel it's their right to impose their definition upon everyone and thus can violate the democratic process. Defining marriage is an issue of policy.
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    Re: 5 possible outcomes of the Supreme Court Prop. 8 case

    Quote Originally Posted by digsbe View Post
    What's damn scary is saying voters have no rights to change and define legal terms in their constitution because some feel it's their right to impose their definition upon everyone and thus can violate the democratic process. Defining marriage is an issue of policy.
    You are talking about the tyranny of the majority

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    Re: 5 possible outcomes of the Supreme Court Prop. 8 case

    Quote Originally Posted by winston53660 View Post
    You are talking about the tyranny of the majority
    It would be tyranny to say that people can't vote and have their belief on the definition of marriage being one man one woman upheld into law. Tyranny would be overriding a publicly supported policy because a minority wants to declare it's their right to do so. Marriage has legally been the union between a man and woman, that's not unconstitutional. States have jurisdiction over marriages, some allow for cousin marriage and SSM, others do not. It's within the rights of those states and the rights of the people to vote and change state policies.
    When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser. -Socrates
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    Re: 5 possible outcomes of the Supreme Court Prop. 8 case

    Quote Originally Posted by digsbe View Post
    It would be tyranny to say that people can't vote and have their belief on the definition of marriage being one man one woman upheld into law. Tyranny would be overriding a publicly supported policy because a minority wants to declare it's their right to do so. Marriage has legally been the union between a man and woman, that's not unconstitutional. States have jurisdiction over marriages, some allow for cousin marriage and SSM, others do not. It's within the rights of those states and the rights of the people to vote and change state policies.

    Tyranny is taking individuals freedoms away via the state

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