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Thread: 5 possible outcomes of the Supreme Court Prop. 8 case

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    Re: 5 possible outcomes of the Supreme Court Prop. 8 case

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    So if, say Kentucky, decided to vote to reinstate slavery and 99% of the people voted yes, they should be able to do it? Think carefully before you answer.
    The slavery and Civil Right's era persecution nonsense is so overplayed and dishonestly applied to the issue.

    A person cannot own another legal person in America. However, the traditional definition of marriage is not unconstitutional. States issue marriage certificates and they can set policy. Voters have every right to exercise democracy on issues of policy like redefining marriage.
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    Re: 5 possible outcomes of the Supreme Court Prop. 8 case

    Quote Originally Posted by digsbe View Post
    How can we live up to democratic expectations when the answer is to kill a state and voters democratic right to legally uphold the traditional definition of marriage?
    If the federal government doesn't exist to provide coverage of basic human rights, why the hell is it there?

    Entering into a voluntary contract with another sovereign human being is a basic human right. For the government to step in and say: "NOPE, Jesus said no!" is certainly overstepping its bounds.
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    Re: 5 possible outcomes of the Supreme Court Prop. 8 case

    Quote Originally Posted by RabidAlpaca View Post
    If the federal government doesn't exist to provide coverage of basic human rights, why the hell is it there?

    Entering into a voluntary contract with another sovereign human being is a basic human right. For the government to step in and say: "NOPE, Jesus said no!" is certainly overstepping its bounds.
    The government isn't saying "Jesus said no." You can't enter into a voluntary contract that is illegal nor does the government need to recognize every contract.
    When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser. -Socrates
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    Re: 5 possible outcomes of the Supreme Court Prop. 8 case

    Quote Originally Posted by digsbe View Post
    A person cannot own another legal person in America. However, the traditional definition of marriage is not unconstitutional. States issue marriage certificates and they can set policy. Voters have every right to exercise democracy on issues of policy like redefining marriage.
    Yet at one point in time, they could. See, you're arguing that if the voters in California want it, they should get it. It's no different than the voters in Kentucky, why shouldn't they get what they want? Hint for you... both fail for exactly the same reason.
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

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    Re: 5 possible outcomes of the Supreme Court Prop. 8 case

    Quote Originally Posted by digsbe View Post
    The government isn't saying "Jesus said no." You can't enter into a voluntary contract that is illegal nor does the government need to recognize every contract.
    Yet marriage isn't illegal. There is no statute by which gays fail the test for marriage. Gay person one can legally marry gay person 2 so long as they are of opposite genders. Therefore there is no legal cause for denying them the ability to marry another person of the same gender.
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

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    Re: 5 possible outcomes of the Supreme Court Prop. 8 case

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    Yet at one point in time, they could. See, you're arguing that if the voters in California want it, they should get it. It's no different than the voters in Kentucky, why shouldn't they get what they want? Hint for you... both fail for exactly the same reason.
    And Civil rights were corrected and women's rights violations were corrected after the Constitution was amendment by the people. It was perfectly legal until the law changed. The law doesn't say a state cannot uphold the traditional definition of marriage. It's not illegal regardless of what people want to believe.
    When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser. -Socrates
    Tired of elections being between the lesser of two evils.

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    Re: 5 possible outcomes of the Supreme Court Prop. 8 case

    Quote Originally Posted by digsbe View Post
    And Civil rights were corrected and women's rights violations were corrected after the Constitution was amendment by the people. It was perfectly legal until the law changed. The law doesn't say a state cannot uphold the traditional definition of marriage. It's not illegal regardless of what people want to believe.
    Then a state cannot uphold a "traditional definition of freedom". If the people of Kentucky wanted to change their state constitution to allow slavery, can they? You're shucking and jiving your way around the problem instead of just recognizing that equality is equality and your religious views mean nothing whatsoever to the law.
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

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    Re: 5 possible outcomes of the Supreme Court Prop. 8 case

    Quote Originally Posted by digsbe View Post
    The government isn't saying "Jesus said no." You can't enter into a voluntary contract that is illegal nor does the government need to recognize every contract.
    So you're saying that if your state were say predominantly muslim, and 51% of the state decided that christians shouldn't be able to get married, you would just as passionately argue for majority rule?

    Or would you rather live in a republic, where all citizens are considered equal, regardless of what the 51% decides?
    Quote Originally Posted by LowDown View Post
    I've got to say that it is shadenfreudalicious to see the rich and famous fucquewads on the coast suffering from the fires.

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    Re: 5 possible outcomes of the Supreme Court Prop. 8 case

    Let's face it, SSM ISN'T really about the rights of two people of the same sex to form a bond.

    It's about $$$$$!

    It's all about legal definitions whereby a couple may qualify for government and insurance benefits. That's what SCOTUS has to determine. That and the right of individual states to determine that legal definition.
    Father Serra's Legacy - novels about the history of the California missions

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    Re: 5 possible outcomes of the Supreme Court Prop. 8 case

    Quote Originally Posted by digsbe View Post
    How can we live up to democratic expectations when the answer is to kill a state and voters democratic right to legally uphold the traditional definition of marriage?
    The question before the court is whether it was legal to uphold that "tradition". Voters do not get to vote to break the law.
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

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