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Thread: 5 possible outcomes of the Supreme Court Prop. 8 case

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    Re: 5 possible outcomes of the Supreme Court Prop. 8 case

    Quote Originally Posted by LowDown View Post
    There are no victims in polygamy, either, so this makes for a very good case for that. As for animals, they are legally property and it might be argued that they can be used however the owner pleases, especially since animals are used for foodstuff, to make leather goods, and so on. Yes, there are laws against mistreatment of animals, but there are those who are already making the case that sex with animals is not mistreatment. As for pedophilia, there is a lot of room to move the age of consent, which is, after all, an arbitrary, sliding distinction.

    You may regard the slippery slope as a weak argument, but it is in fact inexorable. History shows this to be true, and the advent of SSM is a case in point.

    The loss of traditional values has not been particularly beneficial over all. Our culture is in the process of literally dying. Many young people no longer bother to marry or have children because they see no value in either. The birth rate has fallen below the replacement rate, and with each generation there will be less of us. We will be replaced by those who regard our traditions and culture, including freedom, democracy, and egalitarianism, as corrupt and evil; those who punish homosexuality with death, and punish women who seek freedom by stoning them will triumph over us.
    I did not say there where victims, I said it was a separate issue with different arguments. There is no evidence of negative effects of SSM, and some evidence of positive effects, both on those directly involved(the couple and any children of the couple), and society. This is simply not the case with polygamy, which has negative effects on those involved in the marriage.
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    Re: 5 possible outcomes of the Supreme Court Prop. 8 case

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    I'm waiting for them to rule that Prop 8 is unconstitutional on the basis of Gender discrimination and watching with a smile at the fall out.

    The "Traditional Marriage" crowd will be in a tizzy that "the will of the majority" was overturned.

    The large amount of supporters of "Gay Marriage" who don't really care about it in general, but rather are using it as a poker chip in their greater attempt to make Homosexuality = Race under the law, will likely also get in a tizzy anger with the court "wussing out" by not taking a stance on homosexuality.

    And the few people who actually give a damn primarily about same sex marriage OR the mass of lemmings who like to think they are some kind of modern day activist because they change their f'ing facebook icon will probably celebrate....likely ignorantly and as if the case meant something it didn't in the latter example.

    That'd absolutely be my preferred outcome.
    Hey now, I changed my facebook icon and I do give a damn about SSM, but I doubt you could call me ignorant, though I would celebrate in the case you mention. My primary goal, what I want more than anything, is for my mother and niece to be able to marry if they choose to. That does not mean that other goals are not present, nor that I am ignorant, nor that I do not care about the mechanism that gets them there, but only that the overriding concern is for those close to me.
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    Re: 5 possible outcomes of the Supreme Court Prop. 8 case

    Quote Originally Posted by LowDown View Post
    You've made a very good case for polygamy.
    I've made a very good case for individual liberty. It's not up to me to prove why anyone should have a particular right, it's up to the government to prove why they shouldn't. You do agree, don't you?
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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    Re: 5 possible outcomes of the Supreme Court Prop. 8 case

    Quote Originally Posted by LowDown View Post
    There are no victims in polygamy, either, so this makes for a very good case for that. As for animals, they are legally property and it might be argued that they can be used however the owner pleases, especially since animals are used for foodstuff, to make leather goods, and so on. Yes, there are laws against mistreatment of animals, but there are those who are already making the case that sex with animals is not mistreatment. As for pedophilia, there is a lot of room to move the age of consent, which is, after all, an arbitrary, sliding distinction.

    You may regard the slippery slope as a weak argument, but it is in fact inexorable. History shows this to be true, and the advent of SSM is a case in point.

    The loss of traditional values has not been particularly beneficial over all. Our culture is in the process of literally dying. Many young people no longer bother to marry or have children because they see no value in either. The birth rate has fallen below the replacement rate, and with each generation there will be less of us. We will be replaced by those who regard our traditions and culture, including freedom, democracy, and egalitarianism, as corrupt and evil; those who punish homosexuality with death, and punish women who seek freedom by stoning them will triumph over us.
    Moved on to bestiality and pedophilia, how predictable!

    Animals and children cannot sign legal contracts.

    You've yet to quantify any harm caused by same-sex marriage. Falling birth rates? What, you think banning same-sex marriage increases the birth rate?

    Does banning same-sex marriage somehow ward off this invasion of THA MOOOSLIMS that you're terrified of?
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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    Re: 5 possible outcomes of the Supreme Court Prop. 8 case

    Gay Marriage is pointless

    If you change the definition of the word marriage and claim it's a Civil Right for Gays, then you'll have to change it for all other sexual interest groups that want to get married too. This is just a cultural marxist attack on the traditional family.

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    Re: 5 possible outcomes of the Supreme Court Prop. 8 case

    Quote Originally Posted by Bronson View Post
    Gay Marriage is pointless

    If you change the definition of the word marriage and claim it's a Civil Right for Gays, then you'll have to change it for all other sexual interest groups that want to get married too. This is just a cultural marxist attack on the traditional family.
    If you ban same-sex marriage, then you'll have to ban heterosexual marriage! Then you'll have to ban having children and humans will go extinct!

    You've "outed" yourself as not being married, because no married man believes that "being married" and "having sex" are the same thing.
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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    Re: 5 possible outcomes of the Supreme Court Prop. 8 case

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    If you ban same-sex marriage, then you'll have to ban heterosexual marriage! Then you'll have to ban having children and humans will go extinct!

    You've "outed" yourself as not being married, because no married man believes that "being married" and "having sex" are the same thing.
    I reject your premise

    There has never been gay marriage. Even the spartans revered and respected the tradition of marriage because it has a specific purpose for the existence of mankind. It's in harmony with natural law. The warriors had open homosexual relationships and even they never proposed the concept of gay marriage. Marriage has always meant one thing. A union between a man and a women. Gays don't have the right to change it's definition. If you give gays this right, you'll have to give every other sexual interest group the same right. Or any other group that wants the "fundamental right to marriage".

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    Re: 5 possible outcomes of the Supreme Court Prop. 8 case

    Quote Originally Posted by Bronson View Post
    I reject your premise
    Good, because I was being deliberately ridiculous to try and show you how silly your slippery slope argument is.

    There has never been gay marriage. Even the spartans revered and respected the tradition of marriage because it has a specific purpose for the existence of mankind. It's in harmony with natural law.
    There is no natural law. Tigers don't give a crap about the rights of a gazelle. Laws and rights are an entirely human concept.

    The warriors had open homosexual relationships and even they never proposed the concept of gay marriage. Marriage has always meant one thing. A union between a man and a women. Gays don't have the right to change it's definition.
    Since when do you own the definition to a word? Who owns the definition of marriage? I define marriage as between two consenting adults. What makes your definition better? Tradition? Tradition said blacks and whites couldn't marry. Tradition said the wife was literally property. Tradition said the local baron got to devirginize your new bride if he wanted. What did people say about those definitions being changed? Exactly what you're saying now. You don't have the right to redefine marriage! It has always been between one man and one woman of the same race! Interracial marriage goes against natural law and the word of God! (they literally said this, and you are saying it now)

    If you give gays this right, you'll have to give every other sexual interest group the same right. Or any other group that wants the "fundamental right to marriage".
    Marriage isn't sex, and the slippery slope fallacy is a fallacy for a reason. I have a really stunning revelation for you:

    Gay people already have sex. They are having sex right now. As we speak. Naked, hot, gay sex. Gay people have sex a lot. This isn't about sexual interests.

    So if allowing same-sex marriage means you "have to" legalize every other type of marriage, how come you rejected my premise? Why does the slippery slope only go your way and not mine? How come we don't "have to" ban all marriage, or take other rights away from people?
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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    Re: 5 possible outcomes of the Supreme Court Prop. 8 case

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    Good, because I was being deliberately ridiculous to try and show you how silly your slippery slope argument is.
    It isn't a slippery slope argument. If you allow gays to change the definition of marriage, you'll have to allow all other sexual interest groups the same right as well. Just because you can't refute logic doesn't make it "slippery slope". You are arguing from emotion. That doesn't interest me.

    There is no natural law. Tigers don't give a crap about the rights of a gazelle. Laws and rights are an entirely human concept.
    Yes there is natural law. Gays cannot procreate through gay sex.

    Since when do you own the definition to a word? Who owns the definition of marriage? I define marriage as between two consenting adults. What makes your definition better? Tradition? Tradition said blacks and whites couldn't marry. Tradition said the wife was literally property. Tradition said the local baron got to devirginize your new bride if he wanted.
    This isn't about ownership. This is about what the definition of the word is and has always been, and what one sexual interest group that makes up about 2% of the population wants to change it to.

    Marriage isn't sex, and the slippery slope fallacy is a fallacy for a reason. I have a really stunning revelation for you:
    Marriage is an institution that is in harmony with natural law. It's purpose it to bring the sexes together for procreation, where children are raised in an optimal environment. Biological parents have a specific purpose in regards to the emotional and psychological well being of a child. Marriage is about children.

    Gay people already have sex. They are having sex right now. As we speak. Naked, hot, gay sex. Gay people have sex a lot. This isn't about sexual interests.
    Your gay fantasies do not interest me. Gays are a sexual interest group.

    So if allowing same-sex marriage means you "have to" legalize every other type of marriage, how come you rejected my premise? Why does the slippery slope only go your way and not mine? How come we don't "have to" ban all marriage, or take other rights away from people?
    Gays do not have the right to change the definition of what marriage is and always has been.

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    Re: 5 possible outcomes of the Supreme Court Prop. 8 case

    I would be really disappointed if the court kicked the issue down the road. The nation is crying out for an answer, one way or the other. They should just do it and get it over with.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bronson View Post
    There has never been gay marriage.
    Actually, there have. China has records of legal same sex marriages from more than three thousand years ago. There are also records of Roman men, including the emperor Nero, marrying other men. There are records of a SSM performed by a Christian priest in Spain in 1061. So, SSM isn't actually a new concept.
    Liberté. Égalité. Fraternité.

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