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Thread: 5 possible outcomes of the Supreme Court Prop. 8 case

  1. #191
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    Re: 5 possible outcomes of the Supreme Court Prop. 8 case

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    Well, it's possible that in 2013 it will become unconstitutional to ban same-sex marriage.
    Agreed, it is indeed possible. Equally possible it won't be.

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    Re: 5 possible outcomes of the Supreme Court Prop. 8 case

    Quote Originally Posted by Eighty Deuce View Post
    Provide a link. Otherwise, the basis for the state to promote and regulate propagation is long established. Although clearly, many other issues, such as inheritance, divorce, etc., are residual issues.
    You are aware that marriage is a custom going back many thousands of years, pre-dating modern religions, right?
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

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    Re: 5 possible outcomes of the Supreme Court Prop. 8 case

    Quote Originally Posted by Eighty Deuce View Post
    For this to be valid, one must deny that the state has any basis upon which to establish the societal basis for Marriage. That argument has never held water.
    Not true at all.



    False and ill-informed. For millennia, society felt that the slave was a second class citizen, not worthy of the same liberties. Every society, to include blacks enslaving other blacks. Muslims enslaving non-Muslims.

    However, that changed over time. Even our Founders recognized such. If you read of their debates, you would know this. Clearly the Civil War was fomented in part due to abolitionist agitation.

    Your post was pretty ignorant. A stupid strawman. Why bother if that is all you got ?
    It wasn't a straw man, it was an example. You are using the term straw man incorrectly.

    Of course things change over time. People thought slaves were second-class citizens. And right now people think homosexuals are second-class citizens. That doesn't make it right.
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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    Re: 5 possible outcomes of the Supreme Court Prop. 8 case

    Quote Originally Posted by Eighty Deuce View Post
    What is with the red-herrings and strawmen and nonsense ? Can't debate the issue anymore ?


    Pffffft ............
    I was refuting your claims about my motivation for disliking Scalia. If you can't stand to have your opinions challenged, leave the thread.
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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    Re: 5 possible outcomes of the Supreme Court Prop. 8 case

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    Why are victims irrelevant? If you can't articulate any harm whatsoever done to people by allowing same-sex marriage, doesn't that drastically weaken the argument for banning it? You keep talking about a decline in values, definition changes, etc, but can you quantify any actual negative impact of any sort?
    You've made a very good case for polygamy.

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    Re: 5 possible outcomes of the Supreme Court Prop. 8 case

    Quote Originally Posted by LowDown View Post
    You've made a very good case for polygamy.
    Wrong. Polygamy is not SSM, and has it's own problems that SSM does not have: The Problem of Polygamy | Thom Brooks - Academia.edu. False comparisons are false.
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

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    Re: 5 possible outcomes of the Supreme Court Prop. 8 case

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    Wrong. Polygamy is not SSM, and has it's own problems that SSM does not have: The Problem of Polygamy | Thom Brooks - Academia.edu. False comparisons are false.
    Exactly. While I have no particular problem with polygamy, it presents some serious legal issues that really need to be worked out before we allow multiple-partner marriages. All case law that we have to date has dealt only with two partners. Adding more partners multiplies the potential problems. Figure out how to equitably handle those problems and I haven't got the slightest problem with letting polygamous marriage occur.
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

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    Re: 5 possible outcomes of the Supreme Court Prop. 8 case

    I'm waiting for them to rule that Prop 8 is unconstitutional on the basis of Gender discrimination and watching with a smile at the fall out.

    The "Traditional Marriage" crowd will be in a tizzy that "the will of the majority" was overturned.

    The large amount of supporters of "Gay Marriage" who don't really care about it in general, but rather are using it as a poker chip in their greater attempt to make Homosexuality = Race under the law, will likely also get in a tizzy anger with the court "wussing out" by not taking a stance on homosexuality.

    Finally, the few people who actually give a damn primarily about same sex marriage itself OR Facebook lemmings will be happy and celebrate. Facebook Leemings referring to the mass of people who like to think they are some kind of modern day activist because they change their f'ing facebook icon or post "KONY 2012" type things for a week, giving it no real thought before or after. Though their celebrating will likely be ignorant in this case, as they'd wouldn't really understand what the ruling would actually mean.

    That'd absolutely be my preferred outcome.

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    Re: 5 possible outcomes of the Supreme Court Prop. 8 case

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    No, victims are a clear distinguishing point. Animals and minors cannot consent, and so are victims. No one is a victim in a SSM. You have no right to not be offended, nor will I ever make any argument otherwise, so you can pack that straw man away. Your opinions are irrelevant in regards to the law.
    There are no victims in polygamy, either, so this makes for a very good case for that. As for animals, they are legally property and it might be argued that they can be used however the owner pleases, especially since animals are used for foodstuff, to make leather goods, and so on. Yes, there are laws against mistreatment of animals, but there are those who are already making the case that sex with animals is not mistreatment. As for pedophilia, there is a lot of room to move the age of consent, which is, after all, an arbitrary, sliding distinction.

    You may regard the slippery slope as a weak argument, but it is in fact inexorable. History shows this to be true, and the advent of SSM is a case in point.

    The loss of traditional values has not been particularly beneficial over all. Our culture is in the process of literally dying. Many young people no longer bother to marry or have children because they see no value in either. The birth rate has fallen below the replacement rate, and with each generation there will be less of us. We will be replaced by those who regard our traditions and culture, including freedom, democracy, and egalitarianism, as corrupt and evil; those who punish homosexuality with death, and punish women who seek freedom by stoning them will triumph over us.

    "The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule." --HL Mencken

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    Re: 5 possible outcomes of the Supreme Court Prop. 8 case

    The issue is that there are more issues with regards to Polygamy than there are with Same Sex Marriage, so comparing them as a "If you say something for one it automatically applies to the other" analog is ridiculous. The amount of work in terms of contract law alone would be significant and is in stark difference then in same sex marriage being legalized. To my understanding, based on things I've seen CC post, there's also a larger amount of evidence of disfunctional issues tied to polygamy than there is to same sex or traditional marriage because of the interjection of multiple partners leading to new and unique emotional issues based on human nature. So even then, the "harm" question isn't even a direct correlation.

    The two issues have related points, and have overlap, but they are not direct analogs.

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