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Thread: 5 possible outcomes of the Supreme Court Prop. 8 case

  1. #161
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    Re: Supreme Court Proposition 8 Case Arguments Cast Doubt On Gay Marriage Ban

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post

    I would have answered.... "1868"

    I guess of you don't believe it's a 14th amendment issue, you can answer something different... but i don't think i would shy away from this being an equal protection issue.

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    Re: Supreme Court Proposition 8 Case Arguments Cast Doubt On Gay Marriage Ban

    8 JUSTICE KAGAN: Well, could you explain that
    9 a little bit to me, just because I did not pick this up
    10 in your briefs.
    11 What harm you see happening and when and how
    12 and -- what -- what harm to the institution of marriage
    13 or to opposite-sex couples, how does this cause and
    14 effect work?
    15 MR. COOPER: Once again, I -- I would
    16 reiterate that we don't believe that's the correct legal
    17 question before the Court, and that the correct question
    18 is whether or not redefining marriage to include
    19 same-sex couples would advance the interests of marriage
    20 as a --
    21 JUSTICE KENNEDY: Well, then are -- are you
    22 conceding the point that there is no harm or denigration
    23 to traditional opposite-sex marriage couples? So you're
    24 conceding that.
    Prop 8 supporters are just doing a wonderful job presenting their case, aren't they?
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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    Re: 5 possible outcomes of the Supreme Court Prop. 8 case

    Quote Originally Posted by longknife View Post
    IMHO, Prop 8 was an act of 70% of the voters of California and the Fed courts should never have become involved. Less than 2% of Californians are trying to overturn the will of the majority. Is this what this nation has become?
    Hate to break it to you but rights are based on individual freedom. Not majority wants.
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    Re: 5 possible outcomes of the Supreme Court Prop. 8 case

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    Hate to break it to you but rights are based on individual freedom. Not majority wants.
    Aww but I want to vote on Kim Kardashian's marriage.
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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    Re: 5 possible outcomes of the Supreme Court Prop. 8 case

    Quote Originally Posted by Eighty Deuce View Post
    That was answered by Scalia, I believe. Again, the original basis for Marriage was to promote procreation and families.
    Which is entirely wrong, it was originally promoted to control inheritance and wealth. Shows how little Scalia knows.
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

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    Re: 5 possible outcomes of the Supreme Court Prop. 8 case

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    Which is entirely wrong, it was originally promoted to control inheritance and wealth. Shows how little Scalia knows.
    Provide a link. Otherwise, the basis for the state to promote and regulate propagation is long established. Although clearly, many other issues, such as inheritance, divorce, etc., are residual issues.

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    Re: 5 possible outcomes of the Supreme Court Prop. 8 case

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    Today's hearing is specifically California's Prop 8. Tomorrow they hear some arguments on DOMA, specifically section 3. Multiple court rulings exist overturning that section in more than one jurisdiction, so even if SCOTUS punts this one on procedural grounds the exact same case is just going to come back to them. With that, I expect they'll have to issue some sort of ruling.
    As I noted earlier, I think tomorrow should be a much better discussion. Today was still interesting !


    If you disagree, then explain to me how a same-sex marriage ban promotes procreation. Do gay people go "welp, I can't marry the person I love, so I'll marry someone of the opposite sex and have babies!" I just don't see that happening.

    You noted some justices, primarily Scalia. Who is a piece of **** who has absolutely no problem ignoring his jurisprudence when it suits his ideology.
    It is not about whether the SSM ban promotes anything. The argument is that "Marriage" has been defined as it has been for specific benefit to society. That being the propogation of the society. Creating new taxpayers to replace old taxpayers, among other reasons.

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    Re: 5 possible outcomes of the Supreme Court Prop. 8 case

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    Alright well,

    1) The SCOTUS has in the passed said it was a right, that makes that argument tough in court.
    Not exactly, but let us assume you are correct. The issue is how Marriage is defined. Scalia made that point clearly today.

    2) Perhaps if that is your opinion but the DOMA has obviously made it a Federal issue one way or the other.

    3)+4) I don't know if whether the word "marriage" or "civil union" is ultimately used really a big deal to me, it does kind of lead to the notion of a "second-class citizen" even if all the legal rights and benefits are the same.
    Yes, but to the former, that is primarily tomorrow's argument. To the latter, that goes to "stigmatism", which was discussed today, and which did not seem to hold much water. If for no other reason, but that the Justices pointed out that SSM is a new phenomenon, only first legitimized in the Netherlands 13 years ago. And as they said, hardly enough to create a "stigmatism" yet. Even Sotamayor carried that argument.

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    Re: 5 possible outcomes of the Supreme Court Prop. 8 case

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    ............. If I understand correctly, your solution is to keep seperate and unequal types of marriage.
    Trying to get caught up with all the folks who quoted me and which rate a response.

    I think that I have argued for all privileges being the same, just not the title of "Marriage", and even that I am OK with each State deciding. I don't see that as "unequal". Just labeled differently. As I said, I think that is briefly such as Rand Paul's position as well, where he spelled it out in better detail.

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    Re: 5 possible outcomes of the Supreme Court Prop. 8 case

    Quote Originally Posted by Eighty Deuce View Post
    As I noted earlier, I think tomorrow should be a much better discussion. Today was still interesting !




    It is not about whether the SSM ban promotes anything. The argument is that "Marriage" has been defined as it has been for specific benefit to society. That being the propogation of the society. Creating new taxpayers to replace old taxpayers, among other reasons.
    Heterosexual marriage indeed fosters stable family units that benefit society and this is a benefit of the existence of marriage.
    Excluding homosexual couples from getting married does not further that goal. In fact, it harms it: marriage makes homosexual relationships more stable just like it does heterosexual relationships, and that is beneficial to raising children.
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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