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Thread: 5 possible outcomes of the Supreme Court Prop. 8 case

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    Supreme Court Proposition 8 Case Arguments Cast Doubt On Gay Marriage Ban

    Yet the liveliest moments came when Scalia asked Ted Olson, President George W. Bush's solicitor general and the lawyer for the two same-sex couples challenging Prop 8, "When did it become unconstitutional to exclude homosexual couples from marriage? 1791 [when the Bill of Rights was ratified]? 1868, when the 14th Amendment was adopted?"

    Olson pushed back against Scalia's originalist view, asking him in return, "When did it become unconstitutional to prohibit interracial marriages?"

    "It's an easy question," Scalia said. "At the time that the equal protection clause was adopted. That's absolutely true. But don't give me a question to my question."

    "There's no specific date in time," Olson ultimately answered. "This is an evolutionary cycle."


    Read more @: Supreme Court Proposition 8 Case Arguments Cast Doubt On Gay Marriage Ban

    Check and mate


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    Re: 5 possible outcomes of the Supreme Court Prop. 8 case

    Quote Originally Posted by Eighty Deuce View Post
    Its not that simple, as there are priorities.

    1) I do not think Marriage is a "right".
    Precedent disagrees, but ok.

    2) I do think it is a state-level issue.
    I think it's a civil right, and civil rights are nation-wide issues


    3) I have interest in whether or not a state can pass such as a Prop 8. I note that all Prop 8 in CA really came down to was the word "Marriage". CA Civil Unions already had all the other privileges.
    Not entirely true. In California, they're pretty close, but not entirely equal.

    4) I think that the Federal issue, regarding benefits, etc., with such as the Military, is a very good issue. I would be content if it were resolved without changing the definition of marriage, as it had been done in CA.
    Federal benefits are more of an issue with DOMA. And if you think marriage is a state-level issue, shouldn't you have a problem with the idea that the Federal government can just go "Nah, we're not going to recognize THOSE marriages, even though your state decided to issue them."

    I believe that I am very close to Rand Paul's position, which was to make all things "Civil Union", and then to add "Marriage" to some. Perhaps I have misstated or ever-simplified his position, but not by much I assume.
    I think it's a mistake to cede the word "marriage" to a select group of favored citizens who have decided they own the definition of that word.
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    Re: Supreme Court Proposition 8 Case Arguments Cast Doubt On Gay Marriage Ban

    What a very clever argument... I'll add that to my repertoire.
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    Re: Supreme Court Proposition 8 Case Arguments Cast Doubt On Gay Marriage Ban

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    Man, that was brilliant. But then you think about it, how hard would it be to make a racist, bigot, sexist like Scalia look like a baffoon?
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    Re: Supreme Court Proposition 8 Case Arguments Cast Doubt On Gay Marriage Ban

    My experiences is that judges always see issues differently from the advocates. The Obamacare case demonstrated this: nobody expected the case to turn on the definition of a tax.

    I suspect that this case will be also surprising in its reasoning, though the outcome should be favorable to those Americans who think the discrimination againgst gays must finally be ended.

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    Re: 5 possible outcomes of the Supreme Court Prop. 8 case

    if they punt, it's a temporary abdication of support for the equal protection clause. i argue that it's temporary, because this case is the modern Loving v. Virginia.

    Loving v. Virginia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    this is intuitively obvious, and i hope that the court makes the right decision and tosses out discrimination nationwide.

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    Re: 5 possible outcomes of the Supreme Court Prop. 8 case

    I can't believe the court actually entertained the debate of same sex couples adopting. What does adoption have to do with marriage?


    Also Scalia is making himself look like a bigot and unworthy of being on the bench, and I am referring to some of his racial arguments as well.

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    Re: 5 possible outcomes of the Supreme Court Prop. 8 case

    Moderator's Warning:
    5 possible outcomes of the Supreme Court Prop. 8 caseThreads merged. Let's keep the discussion in Breaking News about these two related cases in one thread please.
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    Re: Supreme Court Proposition 8 Case Arguments Cast Doubt On Gay Marriage Ban

    Quote Originally Posted by head of joaquin View Post
    My experiences is that judges always see issues differently from the advocates. The Obamacare case demonstrated this: nobody expected the case to turn on the definition of a tax.
    The VA Attorney General Ken Cuccinelli did. He was very clear that was going to be the point upon which the analysis would turn before the SCOTUS heard the case

    Quote Originally Posted by head of joaquin View Post
    I suspect that this case will be also surprising in its reasoning, though the outcome should be favorable to those Americans who think the discrimination againgst gays must finally be ended.
    And what exactly reasoning do you think they will use and what is your definition of "favorable". If you think they will legalize gay marriage everywhere, I think you will be disappointed.

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    Re: 5 possible outcomes of the Supreme Court Prop. 8 case

    Quote Originally Posted by Eighty Deuce View Post
    Lousy strawman. We have a clear Amendment outlawing slavery.
    Not lousy at all, you claim we should do majority rule. Make up your mind. If SCOTUS determines SSM is protected under an existing amendment, than you claim majority should rule. So my example isn't a strawman it's applying YOUR logic.

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