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Thread: 5 possible outcomes of the Supreme Court Prop. 8 case

  1. #111
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    Re: 5 possible outcomes of the Supreme Court Prop. 8 case

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Nick View Post
    "Equality" is impossible.

    I'm 5'5 maybe I should sue the guy down the street who is 6'5.

    Maybe I should sue progressives because they don't think like I think? that wouldn't be equal....

    No one will ever find "equality" - that **** will never happen..

    Besides, "equality" is nothing more than an interchangeable word for "same" and the majority of those who cry about equality embrace difference (only in certain situations - I'm an evil redneck to them).
    I'm referring to equal rights and protection under the law. Sorry I wasn't exact.

  2. #112
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    Re: 5 possible outcomes of the Supreme Court Prop. 8 case

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Nick View Post
    Do you want to continue to play the "exceptions" nonsense?

    Oh this law doesn't apply because of ____________ and because.

    or

    This idea should be legal because it makes me happy...

    Yeah well I'm sure Charles Manson's minions made him happy by murdering people..... Maybe I should sue to make murder legal?

    Prop 8 was a democratic measure (not only that but a ballot proposition) that violated ZERO laws or freedoms.
    I'm not even going to entertain this absurd red herring about murder. You talk about "playing" and then throw out that card? Really man?
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

  3. #113
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    Re: 5 possible outcomes of the Supreme Court Prop. 8 case

    Quote Originally Posted by TheNextEra View Post
    Yeah so if the majority in the state want slavery, we should allow that too because we don't want to overturn the will of the majority right?
    Lousy strawman. We have a clear Amendment outlawing slavery.

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    SSM was legal in CA. Prop 8 would take away the right to marry for same-sex couples. You can claim it's not a right, but in CA it was before prop 8s passing.
    Where was it a "right" in CA ? If you listened to the arguments today, I heard no Justice argue such. What I did hear was that they felt that the process in CA by which the Prop 8 was passed was a Constitutional process enabling the public to bypass the Legislature.

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    If you think Obamacare is unconstitutional, how did it pass in the first place?
    Although they are not ignorant ot the Constitution, Legislatures do not determine Constitutionality of Laws before they pass them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    If the amendment conflicts with the existing constitution, that must be resolved.

    It was challenged under the states due process clause and ruled unconstitutional because the state has no compelling interest to justify the ban. It was also determined that the proposition violated the equal protection clause.
    Do you have a link ? Thanks.

  4. #114
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    Re: 5 possible outcomes of the Supreme Court Prop. 8 case

    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy View Post
    We don't know of course, but they could very well punt with a twist. They could invalidate the ruling of the 9th and fail to rule on the larger matter.
    Invalidate the ruling of the 9th on what basis? I don't think the "lack of standing" issue works at the circuit court because of how the appeal went. I mean it's theoretically possible, SCOTUS can kind of do whatever the hell they want, but I don't see a path for them to justify that.
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

  5. #115
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    Re: 5 possible outcomes of the Supreme Court Prop. 8 case

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    It's more complicated than that. States can't arbitrarily make discriminations on the basis of gender, they need to show a reason.
    I believe that the argument for marriage benefit to the state as being one man, one woman, has been made many times over. It was recognized many times in arguments today before SCOTUS, that being that the state has a vested interest in regulating, and promoting, procreation.

    Also today, if you listened, the litigants admitted that CA already had laws such that same-sex civil unions had every benefit as a married couple. Except calling it a "marriage", and that the basis of their argument was that this "stigmatized" the civil union folks.

  6. #116
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    Re: 5 possible outcomes of the Supreme Court Prop. 8 case

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    Invalidate the ruling of the 9th on what basis? I don't think the "lack of standing" issue works at the circuit court because of how the appeal went. I mean it's theoretically possible, SCOTUS can kind of do whatever the hell they want, but I don't see a path for them to justify that.
    Of course you don't. But then you see this as a civil rights issue and I don't. They could rule that the 9th overstepped in overruling the state's constitution when it hasn't been established that this is a civil rights issue. And then rule lack of standing delaying their need to rule if it is a civil rights issue.

    Really, SCOTUS justification is whatever they say it is.

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    Re: 5 possible outcomes of the Supreme Court Prop. 8 case

    Quote Originally Posted by calamity View Post
    I'm referring to equal rights and protection under the law. Sorry I wasn't exact.
    Sorry there is no "equality" under law...

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    Re: 5 possible outcomes of the Supreme Court Prop. 8 case

    Quote Originally Posted by Eighty Deuce View Post
    What "rights" of a minority were taken away by Prop 8 ?
    The right to marry someone of their choosing obviously, the right to have the person they've identified as the love of their life receive the same benefits that anyone else would. You may not think of it as a right but when say for example a gay Soldier is killed or wounded in combat, the spousal benefits that would normally go to the spouse of a straight Soldier are not given to a gay one, likewise if they have children they are not given the same benefits either. Even if that Soldier is not killed in combat his spouse is still denied medical care from the military, on post housing, and all the other benefits hetro couples would enjoy. This is because the Defense of Marriage Act defines marriage as between a man and a woman, and being Federal Law it applies to the US military, so even if this Soldier was legally married in his state to someone of the same sex the military does not recognize it.

    Some people, I don't know if this includes you, however view this as acceptable because if God forbid a male Soldier sees his husband in hospital or even on his deathbed then some how that will undermine the meaning of my marriage or the already trashed institution of it.

    Is that equal protection under the law? Is it equal protection that a man who in every aspect of his life treats another man as his spouse be denied the same rights and privileges as a man who treats a woman as his spouse?

    What possible reason is there to not allow this, what do we as a society or as individuals gain from denying it? What benefit is there? Is it just because it makes some people uncomfortable because its against their personal values? Is that reason enough to deny someone all these privileges enjoyed by hetero couples? And what if the shoe was on the other foot, and someone was trying to take away something important to you because it was against their values? Would you still feel the same since they were in the majority?

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    Re: 5 possible outcomes of the Supreme Court Prop. 8 case

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Nick View Post
    Sorry there is no "equality" under law...
    All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the state wherein they reside. No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.
    Yes there is.

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    Re: 5 possible outcomes of the Supreme Court Prop. 8 case

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    I'm not even going to entertain this absurd red herring about murder. You talk about "playing" and then throw out that card? Really man?
    Of course you don't want to - you just want to make exceptions to laws or design laws that don't exist... : "well that is a different situation." Really?

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