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Thread: US provides aid to Syrian rebels

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    Re: US provides aid to Syrian rebels

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    I didn't say it had stopped, are you even reading my posts? And Libya has its own internal divisions as well which are not unlike Iraq. Also Iraq doesn't have three different ethnic groups, there are the Sunni and Shia Arabs who have religious differences but are both Arab, which is their ethnic group, and the Kurds in the North which are of a different ethnic group.

    I fail to see what you mean by Libya being a gateway between East and West, could you elaborate some more?

    Lastly, no most rebels in Mali are not coming through Libya, Libya and Mali don't even border each other, most Mali fighters are coming from neighboring Algeria or Niger. What is coming from Libya though are weapons, that fell out of the hands of the government and rebels during the civil war in Libya and were taken or sold to Mali fighters of various groups. That is a 2nd order effect of a government once capable of securing its arms falling apart.

    Can you source your claim about the CIA being compromised?



    Source? And I know many groups won't work with the US, and frankly they don't have to, if they are moderate and not radicals we should be supporting them in their fight to both replace Assad and not be overcome by the radicals.
    US Intelligence Suffers Major Compromise in Libya
    Wednesday, March 27, 2013



    The sheer incompetence of our State Department and the Obama administration is once again being trotted out for the world to see.

    The tip of the iceberg was exposed last week when CNN reported on the journal of slain US Ambassador Christopher Stevens that one of its news crews had recovered from the smoking rubble of the former US consulate in Benghazi. One had to wonder what possessed a US ambassador to carry a paper journal outside the US embassy in this day and age and how in the name of heaven such a document was left unattended after the attack on the consulate.

    Now it appears that the “safe house” where Stevens and others were supposed to find security during the attack was a treasure trove of CIA and State Department information on efforts to recover MANPADS and the identities of local nationals who were working on our behalf.

    From the tenor of interview, it seems that not only does Mr. Reines have a problem keeping his hands to himself but there is a much larger compromise of intelligence than is currently been reported. In the midst of a slanging match over State’s unprecedented attack on CNN’s reporting, we get this gem:

    I do agree that the media has lots of responsibilities, and CNN fulfilled its responsibility by returning the diary while still managing to inform the American public of newsworthy information. So it’s unfortunate that you are trying to make a scapegoat out of CNN. That State was forced to flee Benghazi–again, because of such inadequate security, leaving behind all sorts of sensitive information–tells us more about DoS than CNN.

    This lies and dissimulation of this administration in the aftermath of 9/11/12 have been stunning in both their scope and amateurishness. It paints the picture of an incompetent and insular regime only now confronting the first actual questions by the previously stump-trained media and failing miserably in the process......snip~

    US Intelligence Suffers Major Compromise in Libya | RedState

    So much for the CIA not being Compromised.....huh?

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    Re: US provides aid to Syrian rebels

    Quote Originally Posted by MMC View Post
    US Intelligence Suffers Major Compromise in Libya
    Wednesday, March 27, 2013



    The sheer incompetence of our State Department and the Obama administration is once again being trotted out for the world to see.

    The tip of the iceberg was exposed last week when CNN reported on the journal of slain US Ambassador Christopher Stevens that one of its news crews had recovered from the smoking rubble of the former US consulate in Benghazi. One had to wonder what possessed a US ambassador to carry a paper journal outside the US embassy in this day and age and how in the name of heaven such a document was left unattended after the attack on the consulate.

    Now it appears that the “safe house” where Stevens and others were supposed to find security during the attack was a treasure trove of CIA and State Department information on efforts to recover MANPADS and the identities of local nationals who were working on our behalf.

    From the tenor of interview, it seems that not only does Mr. Reines have a problem keeping his hands to himself but there is a much larger compromise of intelligence than is currently been reported. In the midst of a slanging match over State’s unprecedented attack on CNN’s reporting, we get this gem:

    I do agree that the media has lots of responsibilities, and CNN fulfilled its responsibility by returning the diary while still managing to inform the American public of newsworthy information. So it’s unfortunate that you are trying to make a scapegoat out of CNN. That State was forced to flee Benghazi–again, because of such inadequate security, leaving behind all sorts of sensitive information–tells us more about DoS than CNN.

    This lies and dissimulation of this administration in the aftermath of 9/11/12 have been stunning in both their scope and amateurishness. It paints the picture of an incompetent and insular regime only now confronting the first actual questions by the previously stump-trained media and failing miserably in the process......snip~

    US Intelligence Suffers Major Compromise in Libya | RedState

    So much for the CIA not being Compromised.....huh?
    That's not a source, its a right wing blog.

    Anyway, if you were referring to Benghazi as the CIA being compromised that's fine, but its not really the topic at hand.

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    Re: US provides aid to Syrian rebels

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    Yes an American Ambassador being killed is a tragic event, but again compared to the thousands of dead and tens of thousands wounded from Iraq its clear which has cost us less blood overall.
    The difference is that there was a war going on in Iraq but not in Libya. In fact the Libyan government could have stopped the seige but didn't. Their loyalty is clear enough. And of course the subsequent cover-up by the Obama Administration should not inspire confidence.

    Iraq told US troops to get out, it was not a policy decision by the Bush or the Obama administration. The Iraqis told the USA that our troops will no longer have immunity from prosecution in Iraqi courts so we respectfully left.
    There was no permission to enter, why is permission necessary to stay?

    And lastly its bizarre you call Libya a failure of policy because an ambassador was killed but say nothing of the thousands of dead Americans in Iraq.
    The difference is war. The two are not comparable.
    You only say that Iraq was a failure when we left and Americans stopped dying, how can you hold both positions to be true?
    Iraq will move in the direction of other Mid East Islamic countries, so why did all these Americans die? To what end? Again, since Vietnam, Americans have started wars but stay around too long and are unable to win wars. They quickly become politicized and the enemy is often hailed as the good guys.

    Do the value of the lives lost in Iraq not mean as much?
    They obviously mean more to me than the American government, or those on the left who attacked their leadership rather than those of the enemy.
    Libya may fail, so may Iraq, its quite possible, however going on what we know today and what the situation is in both countries today, there's no denying that America got more for its blood and money out of Libya than Iraq.
    They got nothing out of either. Not even the oil the Leftists claimed was the reason for being there.

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    Re: US provides aid to Syrian rebels

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    That's not a source, its a right wing blog.

    Anyway, if you were referring to Benghazi as the CIA being compromised that's fine, but its not really the topic at hand.
    They are referenced out while crying about a Right Wing Blog.....so once again that is neither here nor there, and yes the CIA is In Libya.

    Which still changes nothing about those Syrians and their Civil war.....which we need to stay out of.

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    Re: US provides aid to Syrian rebels

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    That's not a source, its a right wing blog.
    Are there any errors in the source?

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    US provides aid to Syrian rebels

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    The article claims the trainees are secular. Of course, you can invent whatever ya like.
    http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/09/wo...anted=all&_r=0

    You seem to have forgotten that one...

    At the very least, you are looking at the us supporting alquaidas allies in the name of toppling another country...

    So, I ask you again: what makes the Syrian "regime" so evil that we are effectively giving aid to enemies that we are at war with elsewhere??

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    Re: US provides aid to Syrian rebels

    Quote Originally Posted by MMC View Post
    They are referenced out while crying about a Right Wing Blog.....so once again that is neither here nor there, and yes the CIA is In Libya.

    Which still changes nothing about those Syrians and their Civil war.....which we need to stay out of.
    I didn't say the CIA wasn't in Libya.

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    Re: US provides aid to Syrian rebels

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    The difference is that there was a war going on in Iraq but not in Libya. In fact the Libyan government could have stopped the seige but didn't. Their loyalty is clear enough. And of course the subsequent cover-up by the Obama Administration should not inspire confidence.



    There was no permission to enter, why is permission necessary to stay?



    The difference is war. The two are not comparable.


    Iraq will move in the direction of other Mid East Islamic countries, so why did all these Americans die? To what end? Again, since Vietnam, Americans have started wars but stay around too long and are unable to win wars. They quickly become politicized and the enemy is often hailed as the good guys.



    They obviously mean more to me than the American government, or those on the left who attacked their leadership rather than those of the enemy.


    They got nothing out of either. Not even the oil the Leftists claimed was the reason for being there.
    Aren't you the same guy saying that Iraq only became a failure once US troops left? How does that fit into your argument here that we should have never been there in the first place?

    Anyway, the two are comparable as they are both examples of the US trying to exert its interests overseas, in one example we invaded and attempt to set up a government and in the other we let a locally created government have authority and backed them up without troops on the ground.

    And if you want to set up a soverign government, like we did in Iraq, then we have to treat them as a soverign government which means we should leave when they tell us to if we are in their country.

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    Re: US provides aid to Syrian rebels

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    Aren't you the same guy saying that Iraq only became a failure once US troops left? How does that fit into your argument here that we should have never been there in the first place?
    I never said that they should never have been there in the first place. I feel the Coalition should have left after Saddam was gone or they should have stayed to see the job through. Instead it was a mix of both. As political pressures mounted, with the American people eventually turning on themselves and political opportunists turning their back on their promises and countrymen, it slowly lurched toward failure.

    Anyway, the two are comparable as they are both examples of the US trying to exert its interests overseas, in one example we invaded and attempt to set up a government and in the other we let a locally created government have authority and backed them up without troops on the ground.
    Every country tries to exert pressure overseas, but that doesn't mean they are at war. Britain pulled out of Libya and the the US should have done the same. The late Ambassador Stevens knew what was going on but was ignored. Even the Red Cross knew better than the US Secretary of State.

    And if you want to set up a soverign government, like we did in Iraq, then we have to treat them as a soverign government which means we should leave when they tell us to if we are in their country.
    I'm not sure that the Iraqi government even told the forces to leave, despite what was said politically. It doesn't make any sense. I see that as a weak excuse to pull out, just as Obama said he would. There is something very strange going on in the Middle East with former leaders, along with Allies and known quantities, being replaced willy nilly.

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    US provides aid to Syrian rebels

    This is absurd. A main rebel leader just left precisely because there is no clear vision or authority structure amongst the rebels. So, we will support amorphous groups of rebels and just hope that they will be better than Assad. Clearly this is a matter for Turkey to address. We are broke, no money to spend on these sort of military excursions.

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