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Thread: FAU Student Claims He Was Suspended For Refusing To Step On Jesus

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    Re: FAU Student Claims He Was Suspended For Refusing To Step On Jesus

    Quote Originally Posted by head of joaquin View Post
    The fact that this story got into the rightwing blogosphere, in a garbled fashion of course (that's the only way the rightwing noise machine works) is because it's being used as part of the conservative attack on liberal education, academic freedom, and intellectual inquiry.

    The right deeply hates America's colleges and the freedom on inquiry they uphold, so it is part of the rightwing agenda to attack and destroy academic freedom. That's why the leeched onto this "story". And in fact, that's the real story -- the continuing rightwing attack on academic freedom. The boy who thought a piece of paper was really Jesus needs to grow up.
    this forum either supports that argument, or the possibility that right whingers don't understand much about higher education.
    Every political good carried to the extreme must be productive of evil.

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    Re: FAU Student Claims He Was Suspended For Refusing To Step On Jesus

    Quote Originally Posted by marywollstonecraft View Post
    because it would not demonstrate to THESE students how powerful a word is.
    That's ridiculous and your assessment on right wingers not understanding "higher education " is based on what ? That we can see easily see through the waves of bull **** narratives that come out of the left wing posters here ? That we somehow have the innate ability to see through everything from the left wing claims of a "economic recovery" to this issue ?

    It's not innate, it comes from defining our ideology with truth first, not using our ideology to define the truth, as so many on the left are guilty of.

    As it turns out there is more than one way to teach the "value" of a word. How about write "Obama's" name on it ? Or "Muhammad's" name on it ? Or write "gay marriage" on it ?

    You savy ? No what this and every other political forum and left wing blog have demonstrated is just how corrupt and disengenuos the left are and to what ends they're prepared to go to to spread their cancer. Its a losing proposition for your ilk.
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    Re: FAU Student Claims He Was Suspended For Refusing To Step On Jesus

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenton View Post
    That's ridiculous and your assessment on right wingers not understanding "higher education " is based on what ? That we can see easily see through the waves of bull **** narratives that come out of the left wing posters here ? That we somehow have the innate ability to see through everything from the left wing claims of a "economic recovery" to this issue ?
    I stated that: this forum either supports that argument, or the possibility that right whingers don't understand much about higher education.

    so my assessment, obviously, was based on the comments of right wingers on this forum. Obviously it does not apply to all right wingers. I have known many who are quite erudite and capable of engaging in critical thinking.

    just not on this forum ... or at least not on this thread....

    It's not innate, it comes from defining our ideology with truth first, not using our ideology to define the truth, as so many on the left are guilty of.

    As it turns out there is more than one way to teach the "value" of a word. How about write "Obama's" name on it ? Or "Muhammad's" name on it ? Or write "gay marriage" on it ?
    your comments here further illustrate my point.

    You savy ? No what this and every other political forum and left wing blog have demonstrated is just how corrupt and disengenuos the left are and to what ends they're prepared to go to to spread their cancer. Its a losing proposition for your ilk.
    thanks again for the evidence.
    Every political good carried to the extreme must be productive of evil.

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    Re: FAU Student Claims He Was Suspended For Refusing To Step On Jesus

    The kids obviously didn't belong at a University.

    I'm guessing he was home schooled.

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    Re: FAU Student Claims He Was Suspended For Refusing To Step On Jesus

    Quote Originally Posted by marywollstonecraft View Post
    I'm thinking that there is a problem with your interpretation of what was going on here. A course on intercultural communications would be looking at the importance of cultural symbols. you need to look at the events in the classroom in that context. I also helps if you don't take one side of the story at face value, until you've heard the other side as well.

    the University stated that

    “We can confirm that no student has been expelled, suspended or disciplined by the university as a result of any activity that took place during this class,”

    however it appears that there is an allegation of misconduct against the student:

    "Rotela is facing a litany of charges – including an alleged violation of the student code of conduct, acts of verbal, written or physical abuse, threats, intimidation, harassment, coercion or other conduct which threaten the health, safety or welfare of any person.”

    “In the interim, you may not attend class or contact any of the students involved in this matter – verbally or electronically – or by any other means,”

    so .... it doesn't appear he misbehaved in class (and I seriously doubt that he would have been "ordered" to stomp on the piece of paper), but at another - or other - times.

    he may have argued that the class was the catalyst for his problematic behavior.

    in general, when disciplinary action is taken against students in a university it is not done so lightly.

    It seems that what you - and he - are doing is trying to justify unacceptable behavior on the part of a student.
    So catch me up to speed please because I haven't read yet anything about what the student did in class that got him booted. Links?

    I have also been unable to read FAU's student conduct code (although I provided the link to this earlier in the thread) and have wondered why. Each institution has its own conduct code, but it's not wise to assume that a university doesn't act "lightly." You cannot know until you've read the conduct code.

    In the institutions with which I am intimately familiar, the professor decides what is "incivility" and can instantly boot a student from a class with that student being barred from returning until there is a resolution. This is usually resolved in a meeting between the prof and student, not in a hearing. That's a later step that follows a meeting with the prof's department chair. If that doesn't yield a resolution, the next step is a dean. If this fails, then there may be a "hearing."

    But there may not be one. I've seen incivility issues travel all the way up to the office of a university president without there being a "hearing" as well as, extremely rarely, a hearing with attorneys present.

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    Re: FAU Student Claims He Was Suspended For Refusing To Step On Jesus

    Quote Originally Posted by nota bene View Post
    So catch me up to speed please because I haven't read yet anything about what the student did in class that got him booted. Links?

    I have also been unable to read FAU's student conduct code (although I provided the link to this earlier in the thread) and have wondered why. Each institution has its own conduct code, but it's not wise to assume that a university doesn't act "lightly." You cannot know until you've read the conduct code.

    In the institutions with which I am intimately familiar, the professor decides what is "incivility" and can instantly boot a student from a class with that student being barred from returning until there is a resolution. This is usually resolved in a meeting between the prof and student, not in a hearing. That's a later step that follows a meeting with the prof's department chair. If that doesn't yield a resolution, the next step is a dean. If this fails, then there may be a "hearing."

    But there may not be one. I've seen incivility issues travel all the way up to the office of a university president without there being a "hearing" as well as, extremely rarely, a hearing with attorneys present.
    from an op-ed piece in the Palm Beach Post but I think this bit I quote is objective
    Rotela refused to participate and then complained to FAU administrators who suspended him, alleging that he threatened Poole. Rotela’s attorney, Hiram Sasser of the Liberty Institute — “dedicated solely to defending and restoring religious liberty in America” — said Rotela “told the professor he was offended and not to ever do that again. That he was going to report what the professor did to his superior and to the public and that he was going to be hearing from him again. That was what the professor sort of turned into the threat.”

    I don't know the individuals involved, I have no connection with FAU.

    Not knowing the student, it is impossible for me to say whether or not Rotela's words to Prof Poole, "You'll be hearing from me again.", should be construed as a threat or not - in some instances such words have led to bad situations, although in most cases nothing happens.

    The entire incident just seems to have been pre-planned IMO.
    “And I have no doubt that every new example will succeed, as every past one has done, in shewing that religion & Govt will both exist in greater purity, the less they are mixed together.”
    ~ James Madison, letter to Edward Livingston, July 10, 1822

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    Re: FAU Student Claims He Was Suspended For Refusing To Step On Jesus

    Quote Originally Posted by mr4anarchy View Post
    The kids obviously didn't belong at a University.

    I'm guessing he was home schooled.
    As opposed to what? A public school education? We know the American public school system is the envy of the world, after all.
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    Re: FAU Student Claims He Was Suspended For Refusing To Step On Jesus

    Quote Originally Posted by nota bene View Post
    So catch me up to speed please because I haven't read yet anything about what the student did in class that got him booted. Links?
    which bit of

    “We can confirm that no student has been expelled, suspended or disciplined by the university as a result of any activity that took place during this class,”

    don't you understand?

    I have also been unable to read FAU's student conduct code (although I provided the link to this earlier in the thread) and have wondered why. Each institution has its own conduct code, but it's not wise to assume that a university doesn't act "lightly." You cannot know until you've read the conduct code.
    the general standards are very similar. the article refers to him facing an alleged violation of the student code of conduct, AND "acts of verbal, written or physical abuse, threats, intimidation, harassment, coercion or other conduct which threaten the health, safety or welfare of any person.” In any institution, these actions would be grounds for student discipline.

    Further, it also states:

    “In the interim, you may not attend class or contact any of the students involved in this matter – verbally or electronically – or by any other means,”

    This suggests that he was engaged in harassment - most likely of the staff member - possibly of other students. This is unacceptable in the workplace, or in an educational institution. the kid needs to grow up.

    the institutions with which I am intimately familiar, the professor decides what is "incivility" and can instantly boot a student from a class with that student being barred from returning until there is a resolution. This is usually resolved in a meeting between the prof and student, not in a hearing. That's a later step that follows a meeting with the prof's department chair. If that doesn't yield a resolution, the next step is a dean. If this fails, then there may be a "hearing."
    that sounds pretty normal ... but can you show me where it says that he was "booted" from the class by the professor?

    I can speculate on what might have happened (and there are several possible scenarios), but I don't know exactly what happened any more than you do. however I do know that there are cases where the teacher can feel so intimidated by an aggressive student that they may not even be the one who decides to exclude the student. The decision may be made at school , faculty or even university level in the case of a student whose behavior is seriously disturbing or disruptive.

    But there may not be one. I've seen incivility issues travel all the way up to the office of a university president without there being a "hearing" as well as, extremely rarely, a hearing with attorneys present.
    In my experience discipline hearings are relatively rare. In the vast majority of cases in any university I have been involved with these issues are generally resolved at the local level, or perhaps at the Faculty level. Like you I am familiar with cases that have by passed a committee on gone directly to the VC - not very often, though. These cases are usually those which need to be handled carefully, due to the fragility of the student. The cases that I am familiar with that have gone on to a hearing are those where the behavior has significant consequences and/or the student refuses to take any responsibility for their action
    Every political good carried to the extreme must be productive of evil.

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    Re: FAU Student Claims He Was Suspended For Refusing To Step On Jesus

    Quote Originally Posted by marywollstonecraft View Post
    which bit of

    “We can confirm that no student has been expelled, suspended or disciplined by the university as a result of any activity that took place during this class,”

    don't you understand?



    the general standards are very similar. the article refers to him facing an alleged violation of the student code of conduct, AND "acts of verbal, written or physical abuse, threats, intimidation, harassment, coercion or other conduct which threaten the health, safety or welfare of any person.” In any institution, these actions would be grounds for student discipline.

    Further, it also states:

    “In the interim, you may not attend class or contact any of the students involved in this matter – verbally or electronically – or by any other means,”

    This suggests that he was engaged in harassment - most likely of the staff member - possibly of other students. This is unacceptable in the workplace, or in an educational institution. the kid needs to grow up.



    that sounds pretty normal ... but can you show me where it says that he was "booted" from the class by the professor?

    I can speculate on what might have happened (and there are several possible scenarios), but I don't know exactly what happened any more than you do. however I do know that there are cases where the teacher can feel so intimidated by an aggressive student that they may not even be the one who decides to exclude the student. The decision may be made at school , faculty or even university level in the case of a student whose behavior is seriously disturbing or disruptive.



    In my experience discipline hearings are relatively rare. In the vast majority of cases in any university I have been involved with these issues are generally resolved at the local level, or perhaps at the Faculty level. Like you I am familiar with cases that have by passed a committee on gone directly to the VC - not very often, though. These cases are usually those which need to be handled carefully, due to the fragility of the student. The cases that I am familiar with that have gone on to a hearing are those where the behavior has significant consequences and/or the student refuses to take any responsibility for their action
    I don't really appreciate your insinuating that I'm dumb by asking what part of the quote I don't understand. But I'll answer you fairly. The OP states that the student was suspended from class, hence my use of the term "booted."

    What you've quoted "no student has been expelled, suspended or disciplined by the university." Suspended from the university is very different from suspension from class.

    In any event, FAU has publicly apologized to the student, and this indicates that Poole's decision wasn't supported by the suits. I'm still interested in learning what other students in the class observed, but the institution apparently couldn't support Poole's claim.

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    Re: FAU Student Claims He Was Suspended For Refusing To Step On Jesus

    Quote Originally Posted by nota bene View Post
    I don't really appreciate your insinuating that I'm dumb by asking what part of the quote I don't understand. But I'll answer you fairly. The OP states that the student was suspended from class, hence my use of the term "booted."

    What you've quoted "no student has been expelled, suspended or disciplined by the university." Suspended from the university is very different from suspension from class.

    In any event, FAU has publicly apologized to the student, and this indicates that Poole's decision wasn't supported by the suits. I'm still interested in learning what other students in the class observed, but the institution apparently couldn't support Poole's claim.
    you might find this interesting ...
    Florida Atlantic University has maintained for a week now that no student was suspended for refusing to participate in an exercise in which students were told to write "Jesus" on a piece of paper and to stand on it. And for a week now, the lawyer for one student has been saying that the university suspended his client for objecting to the lesson. Florida's governor and numerous other politicians have also joined the discussion, denouncing the lesson that was used, and demanding to know why the student was suspended.

    But the president of the faculty union at Florida Atlantic asserted in an interview with Inside Higher Ed Thursday that the university has neglected to explain that the student faced charges for making a threat against the instructor. Chris Robé, the head of the faculty union, said he has spoken to the instructor, Deandre Poole.

    Robé -- who did not name the student -- said that Poole has been ordered by the university not to talk to any reporters, and is thus unable to defend himself, even as he has been widely criticized as anti-Christian (among other things). Poole is non-tenure-track, working on a one-year contract. Conservative activists are calling for him to be fired.

    "He's been under a gag order, and the story has been framed all wrong," Robé said.

    The reason the student faced charges, Robé said, was that "the instructor was verbally threatened," not because the student objected to the Jesus exercise. "He faced a hearing over that."

    Robé said that faculty members have been frustrated that the university has been repeatedly apologizing for the lesson that the student objected to, without "talking to faculty members about what really went on."


    Read more: Why was the FAU student suspended in the 'Jesus' case? | Inside Higher Ed
    Inside Higher Ed
    I will see if I can find what other students have said as well.
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