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Thread: Karl Rove: 'I Could' Imagine Next GOP Presidential Nominee Supporting Gay Marriage

  1. #111
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    Re: Karl Rove: 'I Could' Imagine Next GOP Presidential Nominee Supporting Gay Marriag

    Quote Originally Posted by Tigger View Post
    I could as well. I could also imagine that nominee getting a couple million less votes than this last one got, and 6,000,000 - 6,500,000 less than McCain did. Not a real smart strategy if you're looking to WIN an election.

    As for those who say.... But they'll be offset by the moderates voting for him/her...... I figured that into the figures. I could see the Republican Party losing half its support over the issue. There are no amount of potential moderates that can be gained to offset that sort of loss.
    If the republicans lose that kind of percentage over something that's basically an equal right issue then they're truly a pathetic and weak party to the very core.

    Which I think many of us can agree is probably the case.

    At any rate - that's part of the "fun" I was referring to.
    Seeing if the party implodes or evolves over time.

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    Re: Karl Rove: 'I Could' Imagine Next GOP Presidential Nominee Supporting Gay Marriag

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Progressives were in American government long before Richard Nixon was alive. Nixon was simply being prudent much of the time.
    No doubt. And I don't think that Nixon was necessarily a bad President, he did get us out of VN for instance. However, Progressivism is a disease, a scourge on government that has a nice name, but is in the end little more than another name for collectivist trashing of a nation. A stepping stone Authoritarianism if you will. At least that has remained constant.
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

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    Re: Karl Rove: 'I Could' Imagine Next GOP Presidential Nominee Supporting Gay Marriag

    Quote Originally Posted by ReformCollege View Post
    Well, I by no means am a homophobe, but I will say that whether his comment is a fact or fiction depends on its context. To say heterosexuality is socially normal, is in fact, an opinion.
    However, in strictly biological context, the only purpose of our species is to be able to reproduce. That is the theory of evolution. Considering homosexual couples cannot naturally conceive children with third party participants, it is fair game to say that heterosexuality is biologically necessary for survival while homosexuality is not. That would be a fact. Just something to think about.

    Well, then you are anti-gay marriage which makes you a homophobe. Religion does this to a person. There are many male/female people that cant reproduce, should we prevent them from getting married? Hell, im willing to bet that there may be a bit more male/females that cant reproduce due to infertility problems than homosexuals.
    This question is always dodged.

    If you are gonna be bigoted against homosexuals then i expect you to feel the same towards those with fertility issues.

  4. #114
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    Re: Karl Rove: 'I Could' Imagine Next GOP Presidential Nominee Supporting Gay Marriag

    Quote Originally Posted by Dragonfly View Post
    If the republicans lose that kind of percentage over something that's basically an equal right issue then they're truly a pathetic and weak party to the very core.
    Some of us still actually belive in Principles, Dragonfly. I understand that the Centrist/Moderate philosohpy doesn't actually believe in anything, but some of us still do.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dragonfly View Post
    At any rate - that's part of the "fun" I was referring to. Seeing if the party implodes or evolves over time.
    Hopefully it Implodes, if it comes to that.

  5. #115
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    Re: Karl Rove: 'I Could' Imagine Next GOP Presidential Nominee Supporting Gay Marriag

    Quote Originally Posted by rocket88 View Post
    What's funny here is that you're completely missing what he actually said. He didn't say they "should" be in favor of gay marriage, he said he "could imagine" that it would happen. Big difference.

    What he's saying is that potentially the next candidate makes a political calculation and decides to try to get elected. Strangely enough, Republicans like to win once in a while. Trust me, if they think being anti-gay marriage is going to lose them the election, the GOP will suddenly think it's an idea whose time has come.
    You'll excuse me if while I think that Rove is/was a brilliant campaign strategist for Bush, as a wanna be player in the GOP trying to mold GOP politics, and commentary, I find him to be a tad bit arrogant for me.

    That said, I believe that "marriage" is a term that describes a union between a man, and woman, and God. What government issues are licences for a "union" to exist. So, if benefits and recognition are what the 'gay community' are in search of, then a civil union would accomplish the same thing. If it is just about pushing the Church, and religious community around some more, then I say no.
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

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    Re: Karl Rove: 'I Could' Imagine Next GOP Presidential Nominee Supporting Gay Marriag

    In my experience politicians will say whatever they think will get them elected. If they perceive that a pro gay marriage stance will get them elected then that's what they will do. It doesn't take Carl Rove to tell you that.

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    Re: Karl Rove: 'I Could' Imagine Next GOP Presidential Nominee Supporting Gay Marriag

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    You'll excuse me if while I think that Rove is/was a brilliant campaign strategist for Bush, as a wanna be player in the GOP trying to mold GOP politics, and commentary, I find him to be a tad bit arrogant for me.

    That said, I believe that "marriage" is a term that describes a union between a man, and woman, and God. What government issues are licences for a "union" to exist. So, if benefits and recognition are what the 'gay community' are in search of, then a civil union would accomplish the same thing. If it is just about pushing the Church, and religious community around some more, then I say no.
    If you can craft the civil unions so that there are the same benefits, that would be fine. I've always been of the opinion that marriage is something that happens in a religious ceremony and I'm not comfortable with the government being involved in religious ceremonies. Would you be prepared to give gays the same rights as straight people who are "married" by a judge?

    Most people who favor SSM are not in favor of forcing any churches to do anything they're against. It's just giving the same rights to people joined in a civil ceremony regardless of sexual orientation. I'd never support making a church marry two gay people if they're opposed to it. Some churches are not opposed to it, and I don't see why they can't. Any government saying what churches can or cannot do sounds like an abridgment of First Amendment rights to me.


    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post
    This issue has been plowed more times than Paris Hilton.
    Quote Originally Posted by Oborosen View Post
    Too bad we have to observe human rights.

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    Re: Karl Rove: 'I Could' Imagine Next GOP Presidential Nominee Supporting Gay Marriag

    Quote Originally Posted by fmw View Post
    In my experience politicians will say whatever they think will get them elected. If they perceive that a pro gay marriage stance will get them elected then that's what they will do. It doesn't take Carl Rove to tell you that.
    I think that's exactly what Rove's saying. If it's seen as a big enough problem for the GOP, they're views will suddenly "evolve."


    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post
    This issue has been plowed more times than Paris Hilton.
    Quote Originally Posted by Oborosen View Post
    Too bad we have to observe human rights.

  9. #119
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    Re: Karl Rove: 'I Could' Imagine Next GOP Presidential Nominee Supporting Gay Marriag

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    That said, I believe that "marriage" is a term that describes a union between a man, and woman, and God. What government issues are licences for a "union" to exist. So, if benefits and recognition are what the 'gay community' are in search of, then a civil union would accomplish the same thing. If it is just about pushing the Church, and religious community around some more, then I say no.
    I'm in agreement that marriage should be religious, however, that is not how it is being applied now. So in the meantime, if marriages can be issued by the state as in justice of the peace, then gay marriage should also be legalized. Also, keep in mind that there are religions that DO allow gay marriage.

    I'm definitely not for FORCING any church to marry gay people, just like I am not for FORCING a Catholic church to recognize my marriage when I'm not Catholic.

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    Re: Karl Rove: 'I Could' Imagine Next GOP Presidential Nominee Supporting Gay Marriag

    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post
    I'd love to see a Republican Presidential nominee endorse same sex marriage.

    The far right evangelicals will absolutely crap themselves.

    Bryan Fischer and Tony Perkins will have a ****ing stroke.
    About as much as a Catholic, or Christian democrat endorsing a pro life stance consistent with their religious tenants. You don't generally see it happening on the left, as to do so, would mean a tougher climb to the rank and file. The argument that gay marriage or tolerance of homosexuality should be given due to no material harm to society seems to be the consistent argument from the left on gays, yet, the argument falls apart when applied to abortion rights. With abortion, regardless of what constitutes life, and when, material harm comes to the human being in the womb, and to that, there can be no mistake. What I would like to see is honest, principled integrity on both the left and the right, and let the chips fall as they may.

    Tim-
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