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Thread: FAA to Close 149 Air Traffic Towers Under Cuts......

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    Re: FAA to Close 149 Air Traffic Towers Under Cuts......

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    The sequester is basically the opposite of allocating funds more efficiently. It is a completely blind, unthinking, across the board cut that leaves agencies no discretion to go for that efficiency thing you want. The FAA is sitting on unspent money and they can't use it to keep a few towers open because the sequester doesn't give them that option.

    I'm glad your vague gut feeling has you so sure that nothing could possibly go underfunded. I guess I'll just toss out all that research I did and all that firsthand experience I have from my being in the industry for my entire adult life. Controller staffing must be just fine. It's not like there was a massive wave of retirements over the last decade creating critical staffing problems.
    Bad argument when you wonder why the people of the US are funding something that only benefits the airlines. They should cut all US hired ATC people, unless they are working for a military operation. This should all be funded by private enterprise. instead the taxpayers get to fund it. I am good with this cut and think we should slash anything but regulatory people making sure businesses keep up certain ATC standards. I don't see why we are doing welfare for the airlines to begin with.

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    Re: FAA to Close 149 Air Traffic Towers Under Cuts......

    Quote Originally Posted by MMC View Post
    Well Maggie with them looking at stopping the 3rd shift at Midway. Closing Gary and Waukegan Airfields. Only Place to go will be O'hare.
    They are talking about closing control towers, or overnight shifts at control towers, not airports. Planes, even commercial planes, do not require control towers to land.

    Quote Originally Posted by MMC View Post
    I would agree.....but then with 70% of these fields being in Republican states. I am sure you can understand how it looks like Cherry Picking.
    Control towers are like post offices; many exist not because they are needed... they are pork barrel. One control tower that survived the chopping block was Front Range near Denver. Front Range is a sleepy airport about 30 miles east of the city. It never had a control tower until four years ago. The airport has very little traffic. The only reason the tower likely survived is the proximity of the field to Denver International Airport (about 3 miles west) ... otherwise the tower is superfluous, yet it survived.

    The control tower close actually makes a ton of sense, as many are not likely worth the cost (staffing a control tower 24x7 has to cost $500k to $1M in salary alone), yet has only a marginal down tick is real safety (if you chose the right ones).... yet, it has a ton of political benefit as it sounds unsafe and therefore outrageous.
    Last edited by upsideguy; 03-24-13 at 02:20 AM.

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    Re: FAA to Close 149 Air Traffic Towers Under Cuts......

    Quote Originally Posted by MMC View Post
    Who do you think those you mentioned would cut first. Air traffic Controllers or Pencil pushing shirts that sit in offices? What about sales and advertising? Middle management?
    Please show how there are pencil pushers sales and advertiseing that can be cut.

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    Re: FAA to Close 149 Air Traffic Towers Under Cuts......

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    The sequester is basically the opposite of allocating funds more efficiently. It is a completely blind, unthinking, across the board cut that leaves agencies no discretion to go for that efficiency thing you want. The FAA is sitting on unspent money and they can't use it to keep a few towers open because the sequester doesn't give them that option.

    I'm glad your vague gut feeling has you so sure that nothing could possibly go underfunded. I guess I'll just toss out all that research I did and all that firsthand experience I have from my being in the industry for my entire adult life. Controller staffing must be just fine. It's not like there was a massive wave of retirements over the last decade creating critical staffing problems.
    For you to not understand what I am saying, you have to not want to understand what I am saying, so I wont bother repeating myself a third time.

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    Re: FAA to Close 149 Air Traffic Towers Under Cuts......

    Quote Originally Posted by captainawesome View Post
    Please show how there are pencil pushers sales and advertiseing that can be cut.
    https://faaco.faa.gov/index.cfm/announcement/view/9148

    MISSION:

    The mission of the FAA Mike Monroney Aeronautical Center Small and Disadvantaged Business Utilization Program is derived from Public Law 95-507 and Section 3.6.1.2 of the FAA Acquisition Management System (AMS), Small Business Program, which states "The FAA shall implement and aggressively strive to provide small businesses and small businesses owned and controlled by socially and economically disadvantaged individuals, attainable and reasonable opportunities to participate as prime and subcontractors for products and services procured by the FAA." This commitment is supported by vigorous outreach efforts, senior management accountability, and the monitoring of goal accomplishments at all levels in the agency.

    Office of Small Business Development - Small Business Program Overview

    Did you need to see some more Pencil Pushers and any other marketing done by the FAA.

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    Re: FAA to Close 149 Air Traffic Towers Under Cuts......

    Quote Originally Posted by upsideguy View Post
    They are talking about closing control towers, or overnight shifts at control towers, not airports. Planes, even commercial planes, do not require control towers to land.



    Control towers are like post offices; many exist not because they are needed... they are pork barrel. One control tower that survived the chopping block was Front Range near Denver. Front Range is a sleepy airport about 30 miles east of the city. It never had a control tower until four years ago. The airport has very little traffic. The only reason the tower likely survived is the proximity of the field to Denver International Airport (about 3 miles west) ... otherwise the tower is superfluous, yet it survived.

    The control tower close actually makes a ton of sense, as many are not likely worth the cost (staffing a control tower 24x7 has to cost $500k to $1M in salary alone), yet has only a marginal down tick is real safety (if you chose the right ones).... yet, it has a ton of political benefit as it sounds unsafe and therefore outrageous.


    Yeah, I know that's why I had put the part on them looking to shut down the Night Shift at Midway.....as well as Shutting the Toweer Down at Gary Airport.

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    Re: FAA to Close 149 Air Traffic Towers Under Cuts......

    Quote Originally Posted by tererun View Post
    Uhhh, ok so the people who make profit from air travel will have to provide their own systems without tax payer help to keep doing what their business needs to do. And how is this a horrible thing again? I don't understand why taxpayers who may not be flying are flipping the bill for other people's vacations. It seems to me that the government not providing airline welfare is a great way to cut costs. As for airline ticket prices going up, I don't fly. As for shipping costs going up, perhaps that is good for local manufacturing.

    how is this a bad thing for all people and not just people who love being rammed into an uncomfortable tin can so they can visit exotic locations?
    Yeah.....did you get confused over that part about Businesses that Could hire their own people in to handle towers. Do you think that if Millionaires and Billionaires are paying for their own people and putting up their own towers and airfields that the government would be providing airline welfare?

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    Re: FAA to Close 149 Air Traffic Towers Under Cuts......

    Quote Originally Posted by MMC View Post
    https://faaco.faa.gov/index.cfm/announcement/view/9148

    MISSION:

    The mission of the FAA Mike Monroney Aeronautical Center Small and Disadvantaged Business Utilization Program is derived from Public Law 95-507 and Section 3.6.1.2 of the FAA Acquisition Management System (AMS), Small Business Program, which states "The FAA shall implement and aggressively strive to provide small businesses and small businesses owned and controlled by socially and economically disadvantaged individuals, attainable and reasonable opportunities to participate as prime and subcontractors for products and services procured by the FAA." This commitment is supported by vigorous outreach efforts, senior management accountability, and the monitoring of goal accomplishments at all levels in the agency.

    Office of Small Business Development - Small Business Program Overview

    Did you need to see some more Pencil Pushers and any other marketing done by the FAA.
    So they work for the faa?

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    Re: FAA to Close 149 Air Traffic Towers Under Cuts......

    Quote Originally Posted by captainawesome View Post
    So they work for the faa?
    Yep.....for products and services procured by the FAA. Although they have other marketing people. They also have research and a development team or teams.

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    Re: FAA to Close 149 Air Traffic Towers Under Cuts......

    Quote Originally Posted by tererun View Post
    Bad argument when you wonder why the people of the US are funding something that only benefits the airlines. They should cut all US hired ATC people, unless they are working for a military operation. This should all be funded by private enterprise. instead the taxpayers get to fund it. I am good with this cut and think we should slash anything but regulatory people making sure businesses keep up certain ATC standards. I don't see why we are doing welfare for the airlines to begin with.
    Yep. Just like the TSA, the FAA serves only the flying public directly, although it does provide indirect increased safety for those that would be zapped if airliners suddenly dropped upon them. The most logical thing would be to fund the TSA/FAA via user fees imposed upon the airlines (perhaps by taxing aircraft fuel), which would naturally be passed on as higher ticket prices for passengers and higher cargo charges for air freight. This is the scheme largely used to fund our nation's roadways by federal/state excise taxation of motor fuels.
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

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