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Thread: FAA to Close 149 Air Traffic Towers Under Cuts......

  1. #51
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    Re: FAA to Close 149 Air Traffic Towers Under Cuts......

    Quote Originally Posted by Visbek View Post
    There is no %$#@!! "Obamaphone."

    There is a private sector program, run by a company called SafeLink, which provides 1 hour of call time a month to qualifying low-income households. It's not a government program. (FactCheck.org : The Obama Phone?)

    Quite a few federal employees will lose their salaries, if not their jobs. Contractors will go first, because they are a) pretty expensive and b) contractors, so firing them is a lot easier. The same with any company.

    I'd prefer that government agencies be run by Oompa-Loompas, and give out candy for free. Unfortunately, that's not how government actually works.
    Never said it was an Obama program. The program was started many years ago by the government, not providers, and like most government, has continued to grow. The program is paid for by a tax, or is it a fee?, on providers of communications. That fee is passed on to the paying consumer, either directly, or included in the bill of the paying customer. In most cases, the program costs the takee nothing. Nevertheless, it is time to stop the program and eliminate the service fee. SafefLink is just one of the many providers that have jumped on this bandwagon.

    You are probably right, by eliminating the czars, a lot of unnecessary and redundant jobs will be lost. How else are you going to cut spending other than cutting spending?

    I would prefer the government be run by responsible persons who are actually representing the people rather than answerable only to the one man who appointed them.

    Obama is using the sequester, which was originally at least partially his proposal, to cut those programs that he will get the most publicity unfavorably to those who oppose him. Yet, at the same time, no cuts in welfare, foreign aid, high level government perks and travel, are all left alone. Biden spends, for instance, while these cuts are being proposed, is spending a million in hotel bills alone in 2 days, not including transportation and incidentals, and as far as I know the 6 figure dog handler is still on the payroll. The WH tour program reportedly costs less than 75 K per year.

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    Re: FAA to Close 149 Air Traffic Towers Under Cuts......

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    That would be a 10% cut if it were all "take home" pay, yet we know at the controller pay rate that SS, Medicare, retirement and taxes make that "hit" a good bit smaller. Think for a minute, why a reduction in the planned budget increase needs ANY personnel action at all; the FAA still gets as much (if not more) in 2013 as it got in 2012.
    Their budget is substantially lower, not higher. They have to cut $627 million from this year's budget, which ends in September. Funding they thought they'd have through September isn't going to be there. You're making an awful lot of assumptions in this thread that you haven't checked on first.
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

  3. #53
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    Re: FAA to Close 149 Air Traffic Towers Under Cuts......

    Quote Originally Posted by MMC View Post
    I would agree.....but then with 70% of these fields being in Republican states. I am sure you can understand how it looks like Cherry Picking.
    Rural areas with less traffic. It only looks like that if you don't bother to actually think about it.
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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    Re: FAA to Close 149 Air Traffic Towers Under Cuts......

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    Rural areas with less traffic. It only looks like that if you don't bother to actually think about it.
    Well I just gave an example. With Gary's Airport for Indiana and being Chicagoland Area. Also the Waukegan field and Another out NW Illinois. Which also will include Lansing Illinois and their Small private field. But then to top it off.....they haven't decided yet with Midway and the night shift. Which would affect the entire South Suburbs and People from Indiana that go there instead of O'hare.

    So while they may be under a certain limit all of them service Chicago Illinois South Suburban Illinois, Northern Illinois, and NW Indiana.

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    Re: FAA to Close 149 Air Traffic Towers Under Cuts......

    Quote Originally Posted by Visbek View Post
    Yep... and indicative of the real problem.

    People want services, but don't want to pay for them.

    These smaller airports are exactly the kind of "federal wasted dollars" that ought to be targeted. They're small, low-volume airports, and many receive federal funding and services because locals pressure Congress to keep them going.

    What these small airports ought to do is the private sector thing -- namely, hire or pay for the controllers to keep working, and charge those who use the airport for that service. Instead, we get all sorts of hue and cry about how this government spending is "necessary." As long as the people who use the airport don't have to pay for it, that is.
    Privitize the whole ATC system like Canada and Australia have done. Problem solved sequester or no sequester the system continues to work. The cuts will be in middle management just as they were in Canada and Australia. Heck Canada's ATC system went from 7 levels of management down to 3.
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    Re: FAA to Close 149 Air Traffic Towers Under Cuts......

    Quote Originally Posted by jimbo View Post
    Never said it was an Obama program. The program was started many years ago by the government, not providers, and like most government, has continued to grow....
    It's not operated by the government, and it isn't funded by taxes. It's operated by the telecom companies, who have been offering subsidies on telecommunications since at least 1997. The President's office has little or no control over it.


    I would prefer the government be run by responsible persons who are actually representing the people rather than answerable only to the one man who appointed them.
    That's not how it works.

    The agencies are staffed by contractors (whose companies bid for the contracts) and lots of staffers, who are civil servants. Most of them stick around for decades. Some are dead wood, some have -- gasp! -- gained expertise in their fields. (I have little doubt that many corporations have similar staffing inefficiencies, despite all the layoffs and pressure.)

    The President gets to appoint the heads of those agencies, usually with review by Congress. There are no provisions for elections for the heads of agencies, nor do I really see how that makes much sense, since those agencies are the responsibility of the Executive, and answerable to Congress.


    Obama is using the sequester, which was originally at least partially his proposal, to cut those programs that he will get the most publicity unfavorably to those who oppose him.
    Partly incorrect.

    Yes, Obama is partly responsible for the sequester. But again, the idea all along was to devise cuts so distasteful to both parties, that no one would actually want it to go through. It's yet another manufactured crisis.

    However, it wasn't designed with "publicity" in mind. It was designed so that everyone involved would say "wow, this spending cut really sucks ass."

    And guess what? That's exactly what's happening. No one really wants to gank the FAA or Homeland Security. And yet, here we are.


    Yet, at the same time, no cuts in welfare, foreign aid, high level government perks and travel, are all left alone.
    Partly incorrect.

    Medicaid, TANF, CHIP are welfare programs that don't get cut. This is not because someone likes them, but because they're mandatory spending. Just like interest payments, which are also spared the axe.

    Social Security doesn't get cut -- and is not "welfare." Most of the recipients are retirees who have paid into it for their entire lives.

    Foreign aid and the State Department are getting cut like everyone else. So is unemployment, the FDA, NIH, CDC, education, housing subsidies, FEMA NASA DOE NSF FBI SEC -- you name it, it's almost certainly getting a cut. The only "perk" that can't be cut is Obama's salary -- and that's because the Constitution forbids it (Art II §1 Cl 7).

    Griping about Biden's travel allowance is not a serious complaint. It's an indication that people don't understand how big money works. Even Bill O'Reilly is smart enough not to make a federal case out of travel allowances.

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    Re: FAA to Close 149 Air Traffic Towers Under Cuts......

    By the way....

    Here's the FAA's 2013 Budget

    It's only, uh.... 1000 pages long.

    You might want to read it --- ok, ok, skim it -- before you proclaim that it's easy to cut $650 million by firing a couple of suits in Washington.

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    Re: FAA to Close 149 Air Traffic Towers Under Cuts......

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    Their budget is substantially lower, not higher. They have to cut $627 million from this year's budget, which ends in September. Funding they thought they'd have through September isn't going to be there. You're making an awful lot of assumptions in this thread that you haven't checked on first.
    The sequestration budget law was signed in August 2012, before the fiscal year 2013 even started. I realize that they cared not and planned on business as usual, since the mighty Obama assured them that the budget law was merely a joke and that he had powers to force congress to change their minds. This is simply mismanagement on a monumental scale.
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

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    Re: FAA to Close 149 Air Traffic Towers Under Cuts......

    Quote Originally Posted by MMC View Post
    Well I just gave an example. With Gary's Airport for Indiana and being Chicagoland Area. Also the Waukegan field and Another out NW Illinois. Which also will include Lansing Illinois and their Small private field. But then to top it off.....they haven't decided yet with Midway and the night shift. Which would affect the entire South Suburbs and People from Indiana that go there instead of O'hare.

    So while they may be under a certain limit all of them service Chicago Illinois South Suburban Illinois, Northern Illinois, and NW Indiana.
    Area of service has very little to do with whether or not a control tower is necessary. The tower closes, the airport does not.

    Traffic volume is pretty much the sole determinant of whether a tower is necessary for safety.

    Private airports don't have control towers. You might be confusing "doesn't have airline service" for "private field." Or "mostly small planes."
    Last edited by Deuce; 03-23-13 at 06:53 PM.
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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    Re: FAA to Close 149 Air Traffic Towers Under Cuts......

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    The sequestration budget law was signed in August 2012, before the fiscal year 2013 even started. I realize that they cared not and planned on business as usual, since the mighty Obama assured them that the budget law was merely a joke and that he had powers to force congress to change their minds. This is simply mismanagement on a monumental scale.
    So you've gone from "are you sure they're getting cut" to "it's not really a cut because it's just not raising" to "well it's a cut but they should have planned on the cut." The FAA did plan ahead. They had a list of potential closures before sequestration actually took effect. I knew my local tower was at risk in December. The FAA, obviously, didn't actually close towers until sequestration took effect because... why would you prematurely close air traffic control towers? Once sequestration took effect, they moved forward, sent out notices, and took time to go through the appeals process. (where various facilities were given the chance to make their case for staying open)

    Yes, I totally agree. It was horribly mismanaged from the start. Congress designed this as being "too stupid to actually do so we're forced to deal" and then went and did it anyway. The FAA only has so much discretion here, they've worked with what congress gave them. Hell, as previously mentioned there's $50 million in unallocated research funding they'd love to use to shore up the Air Traffic budget but they're literally not allowed to do that unless Congress signs a bill saying so.

    You've made a lot of assumptions in this thread and virtually all of them have been wrong. Stop making such grand declarations about a subject you clearly have no direct information on.
    Last edited by Deuce; 03-23-13 at 06:49 PM.
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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