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New Hampshire House Votes To Prohibit Private Prisons

apdst said:
If selling weed is illegal, then it's the fault of the people breaking the law that they are locked up.

Don't do the crime, if you can't do the time.

It's funny to hear "It's the law of the land", Libbos cry about criminals getting locked up.
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That point went way over your Con head didn't it? Simple, make something trivial illegal - then be ready to take responsibility for making it illegal. Don't make it illegal and pass it off to X company so you can make money.
 
apdst said:
Criminals relinquish their own freedom when they commit a crime.
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Criminals only relinquish their freedom when they get caught, and only then because the alternative is to relinquish their lives and/or livelihoods.

apdst said:
If selling weed is illegal, then it's the fault of the people breaking the law that they are locked up.

Don't do the crime, if you can't do the time.

It's funny to hear "It's the law of the land", Libbos cry about criminals getting locked up.
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It's funny to hear conservatives praise high-cost, low-benefit policies with one breath, and then complain about government deficits with the next.
 
What if...? said:
Profit motive.

Rehabilitated inmates don't become repeat customers.

Good behavior usually results in reduced time behind bars, which is ALSO bad for the bottom line.

Stockholders want their dividends and rehabilitation doesn't serve that end.
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But if the state puts rehab as part of the contract requirement, then it is the same end. It isn't like state's themselves have not been whacking back at all these programs in the public-owned prisons.
 
ChunkySalsa said:
Criminals only relinquish their freedom when they get caught, and only then because the alternative is to relinquish their lives and/or livelihoods.
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They get caught, because they commit a crime, which was a concious decision on their part.

It's funny to hear conservatives praise high-cost, low-benefit policies with one breath, and then complain about government deficits with the next.
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Where did I do that?
 
Hatuey said:
That point went way over your Con head didn't it? Simple, make something trivial illegal - then be ready to take responsibility for making it illegal. Don't make it illegal and pass it off to X company so you can make money.
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What in the hell does that have to do with the topic?
 
What if...? said:
Are you aware that all inmates in the federal system work full time and ALL non-security work is performed by inmates?

And it still isn't anywhere near self sufficient.

Loss of freedom IS the punishment, making doing so "free" to the society that does so removes all consequence from that decision and therefore encourages abuse.

What would keep them from simply locking up anybody who does anything anybody doesn't like?
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How many Federal prisons brow crops and keep livestock? Show me one.
 
apdst said:
What in the hell does that have to do with the topic?
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That your Con brain doesn't understand it is not surprising. Here, I'll explain it using apples. The government is "hiring" private companies to do the job it's supposed to do by way of private companies. These companies in turn lobby (bribe) lawmakers in order to get contracts which enrich them. If the lawmakers are simply going to waste taxpayer money incarcerating people for victimless crimes, they should make the government foot the bill for it without a middle man. In other words: If they are going to lock up Jimmy for growing weed in his backyard, it's their responsibility to make sure he is fed not whatever corporation is giving campaign contributions.
 
Fisher said:
Why can private prisons not be rehabilitative?
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Because of profit. These prisons get money per prisoner, not per rehabilitative prisoner. Add to that corrupt courts and you have a system that is very bad. There have been several cases of American judges working together with the private prison system to generate profit for both of them. There was a case not long ago, where judge worked with a juvenile dention center and sent kids there on long sentences for minor charges and even innocent kids.

IDK--we ship excess prisoners all over the place. I doubt the ones who land in Texas get much rehab, but stranger things have happened.
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Because it is a 10s of billion dollar industry....
 
Fisher said:
But if the state puts rehab as part of the contract requirement, then it is the same end. It isn't like state's themselves have not been whacking back at all these programs in the public-owned prisons.
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And what's to prevent private prisons from avoiding such requirements through lobbying?

Or maybe they'll just bribe judges to make up for their losses through rehab. Kinda like what happened in AZ with the juveniles.
 
Hatuey said:
That your Con brain doesn't understand it is not surprising. Here, I'll explain it using apples. The government is "hiring" private companies to do the job it's supposed to do by way of private companies. These companies in turn lobby (bribe) lawmakers in order to get contracts which enrich them. If the lawmakers are simply going to waste taxpayer money incarcerating people for victimless crimes, they should make the government foot the bill for it without a middle man. In other words: If they are going to lock up Jimmy for growing weed in his backyard, it's their responsibility to make sure he is fed not whatever corporation is giving campaign contributions.
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Nevermind that Jimmy broke the law. Right?

Look, if you want to argue that growing weed shouldn't be illegal, then start the umpteenth thread about that. However, this thread is about prisons, imprisonment and NH making it illegal to privatize prisons.

Private prisons, or not, growing weed is still going to be illegal and Jimmy will still go to jail if he gets busted. Jimmy made a concious decision to break the law and forfitted his freedom because of that decision.

I think the government should make sure that prisoners are fed. They should supply them with the necessary tools, supplies and supervision to grow their own food, thereby making the cost of operating prisons cheaper and making prison life tougher. If convicts don't like prison life, then they shouldn't break the law.
 
What if...? said:
Lompoc used to, had a dairy and food crops. Not sure if they still do.
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As far as I know, Angola still does, but not as much I don't think. The bleeding hearts started crying that prison life is too tough when inmates have to do manual labor.
 
apdst said:
How many Federal prisons brow crops and keep livestock? Show me one.
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I don't know about Federal prisons, but I believe Angola state prison in Louisiana still has farm labor. I remember seeing a documentary on it and thought it was great. As of 2010, it has 2,000 head of cattle and the prisoners harvest some four million pounds of vegetables annually. They produce cabbage, corn, cotton, okra, onions, peppers, soybeans, squash, tomatoes, and wheat. I think it should be an example other prisons should follow.


Prisons should never be used for corporate profit. It is one of the few things that I think shouldn't be private.

Prisons were made to do a job. Punish and rehabilitate criminals, but the latter it usually forgotten these days.
 
apdst said:
Nevermind that Jimmy broke the law. Right?

Look, if you want to argue that growing weed shouldn't be illegal, then start the umpteenth thread about that. However, this thread is about prisons, imprisonment and NH making it illegal to privatize prisons.

Private prisons, or not, growing weed is still going to be illegal and Jimmy will still go to jail if he gets busted. Jimmy made a concious decision to break the law and forfitted his freedom because of that decision.

I think the government should make sure that prisoners are fed. They should supply them with the necessary tools, supplies and supervision to grow their own food, thereby making the cost of operating prisons cheaper and making prison life tougher. If convicts don't like prison life, then they shouldn't break the law.
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Doesn't work.

Increases in staff to supervise/prevent escape offset any savings.
 
poweRob said:
Major kudos to the New Hampshire House. Hopefully this will push through the rest of the state government and then go viral to other states.


House votes to prohibit prison privatization, bill moves to Senate for review

The House on Thursday voted to forbid the executive branch from privatizing the state prison system, saying that to do so would shirk the state’s constitutional responsibility to rehabilitate inmates.

The 197-136 roll call by the Democratic -controlled House sent House Bill 443 to the Senate, where Republicans hold a slim, 13-11 majority and the bill’s fate is uncertain, at best.​
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I don't know what a private prison is. Not to mention prison is not about "rehabilitation" it's about punishment and paying your debt to society.
 
What if...? said:
Doesn't work.

Increases in staff to supervise/prevent escape offset any savings.
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It used to work. All of a sudden it doesn't? Yeah, that makes sense.
 
poweRob said:
Major kudos to the New Hampshire House. Hopefully this will push through the rest of the state government and then go viral to other states.


House votes to prohibit prison privatization, bill moves to Senate for review

The House on Thursday voted to forbid the executive branch from privatizing the state prison system, saying that to do so would shirk the state’s constitutional responsibility to rehabilitate inmates.

The 197-136 roll call by the Democratic -controlled House sent House Bill 443 to the Senate, where Republicans hold a slim, 13-11 majority and the bill’s fate is uncertain, at best.​
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Nice one!
 
Hatuey said:
A little bit? They should be entirely about rehabilitation. That's the entire point. We don't want people becoming better criminals in jails. We want them to get out and become productive citizens.
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100% agree. If the focus is overwhelming on the punitive over the rehabilitative, then you'd better prepare to hold them for life, because otherwise they're going to leave prison a whole lot crappier than when they entered.
 
apdst said:
It used to work. All of a sudden it doesn't? Yeah, that makes sense.
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Its always worked with low level inmates.

You want to extend it to.ALL inmates.

Nobody in a penitentiary worked on the farm.

Chain gangs won't work for farm labor.
 
What if...? said:
Its always worked with low level inmates.

You want to extend it to.ALL inmates.

Nobody in a penitentiary worked on the farm.

Chain gangs won't work for farm labor.
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Angola is a penientiary.
 
Mr.Nick said:
I don't know what a private prison is. Not to mention prison is not about "rehabilitation" it's about punishment and paying your debt to society.
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So the point of prisons is to help criminals network and learn how to make better plans for not getting caught?
 
What if...? said:
Its always worked with low level inmates.

You want to extend it to.ALL inmates.

Nobody in a penitentiary worked on the farm.

Chain gangs won't work for farm labor.
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Back when I was 18 I got busted for a boat load of weed and ended up pleading to a crime I didn't commit (that had nothing to do with what I was really guilty of), they sent me to a minimum security "work camp" and I can tell you we certainly did work out in the community doing public works projects (mowing fields, trash pickup, setting up community fairs, painting buildings etc) although it wasn't "farming" it was still work. We got paid tho - like .75 cents an hour. They didn't work us to death and we weren't chained together. As a matter of fact it was about as good as it could get considering I was in "prison." It was all free movement - it was pretty much a compound with a fence around it with three dorms....

Of course the "prison" (if you want to call it that) was profiting off our labor... So I'm sure they had private contracts with the community but I don't know if that is considered "privatizing."
 
rocket88 said:
So the point of prisons is to help criminals network and learn how to make better plans for not getting caught?
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I don't think that's the plan but it certainly is the end result if one ends up in a "real prison." Yes, hardened criminals teach other harden criminals new tricks - they do nothing to rehabilitate anyone in those places...

How the hell are you going to rehabilitate someone if they're stuck in a cell 23 hours a day for years on end?

All the prisons do is separate low risk inmates from moderate and high risk inmates... The low risk inmates (who are generally doing a few months or a couple years) are shipped to work camps, and in return for their work and good behavior they have the maximum amount of freedom. But those guys are generally not "criminals" and the majority learn their lesson and never return.
 
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apdst said:
Nevermind that Jimmy broke the law. Right?
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What does that have to do with the government taking financial responsibility for the laws it creates!?!?! If somebody breaks the law, it doesn't give the government the green light to pass them off to a private company for campaign contributions in the future.
 
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