Unfit For Work: The Startling Rise Of Disability In America

Boo Radley said:

If you believe that supports his point, you've misread it. Fixing the problems are costly, difficult, and often requiring more then elected leaders. So it has little to do with his claim. Having people dependent for votes s not what that is saying.

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First off, "see point 2" was to redirect you to the subsistence of my argument, rather then swerving off into your rhetorical talking points. I have yet to see you address what I am actually saying, and rather you instead are trying to undermine me (or other posters) using greedy reductionism. Reducing my argument to "vilifying people" or "jumping overboard" or any of your other ridiculously vague statements is childish. And if you say you aren't reducing my argument, then you are simply saying such things unsolicited and are talking past me. Either way, its subtraction by addition.

Now to the specifics.

Like I said, I agree with him that Democrats are sympathetic to more lax standards for disability benefits. It is a major component of their base that they wouldn't risk pissing off, but at the same time I don't know if I think they are rigging the system strictly to win votes.

The article does show that there has been quite a steady rise in disability benefits for working age citizens. Also having to "prove you cannot function in a working place environment" means absolutely nothing when the standards for the words "prove" and "cannot" are ambiguous and can be exaggerated.

ReformCollege said:

First off, "see point 2" was to redirect you to the subsistence of my argument, rather then swerving off into your rhetorical talking points. I have yet to see you address what I am actually saying, and rather you instead are trying to undermine me (or other posters) using greedy reductionism. Reducing my argument to "vilifying people" or "jumping overboard" or any of your other ridiculously vague statements is childish. And if you say you aren't reducing my argument, then you are simply saying such things unsolicited and are talking past me. Either way, its subtraction by addition.

Now to the specifics.

Like I said, I agree with him that Democrats are sympathetic to more lax standards for disability benefits. It is a major component of their base that they wouldn't risk pissing off, but at the same time I don't know if I think they are rigging the system strictly to win votes.

The article does show that there has been quite a steady rise in disability benefits for working age citizens. Also having to "prove you cannot function in a working place environment" means absolutely nothing when the standards for the words "prove" and "cannot" are ambiguous and can be exaggerated.

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If I'm not addressing what you're saying. It seem to respond to our discussing concerning the political discussion I was having with TD.

And his point was more Han sympathetic to, but spoke to motivation, wanting votes. We would also likely disagree about the motivations of those (overall) going on disability. I tred to show that with what I linked.

Northern Light said:

When an unacceptable number of our
population has become fat and stupid, it's no mystery why so many people are on disability. Our health care system is defunct, it's cheaper to buy junk food than real food thanks to subsidies, and with unions disappearing and proposals to slash minimum wage people have to work longer hours for the privilege of remaining poor.

You call it the gravy train, I call it the necessary outcome of a corporate slavery mentality. Just keep outsourcing the jobs and destroying worker rights, and more and more people will keep turning to the government tit.

But yeah... keep blaming the disenfranchised for being disenfranchised. In the land of America, ignorance is strength, and slavery is freedom. :shrug:

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Your'e blaming the rise in obesity and all the health issues that come along with it on "subsidies" and corporations ?

Wow, how twisted the fringe has become ?

Unions have themselves to blame for their decline, as they continue to support the politicians who kill jobs and economic activity with their stupidity.

Corporations seem to have become the generic boogry man as of late because to mention the unthinkable ( people need to be more responsible ) is just to dificult to do.

There is value in humility.

Boo Radley said:

You may want to read what I responded to closer. TD makes the statement that in effect says democrats allow abuses for political gain, winning elections. That part f his post I challenged and called it bs. I called it that because it is bs.

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Really? It's BS?

A record 5.4 million workers and their dependents have signed up to collect federal disability checks since President Obama took office, according to the latest official government data, as discouraged workers increasingly give up looking for jobs and take advantage of the federal program.

Read More At Investor's Business Daily: Disabled America: 5.4 Million Join Social Security Disability Insurance Rolls Under Obama - Investors.com
Follow us: @IBDinvestors on Twitter | InvestorsBusinessDaily on Facebook

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Wow, 5.4 million people all of the sudden became disabled? That's amazing....We'd better find out what's hurting our workers....But it's all BS right?

j-mac said:

Really? It's BS?



Wow, 5.4 million people all of the sudden became disabled? That's amazing....We'd better find out what's hurting our workers....But it's all BS right?

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The trouble is you think that somehow proves his point. It doesn't. The reasons for this likely have nothing to do with who is president. And the loss of jobs started long before Obama was elected something else not controlled by presidents). So, yes, it is BS. Silly, partisan, BS.

Boo Radley said:

The trouble is you think that somehow
proves his point. It doesn't. The
reasons for this likely have nothing to do with who is president. And the loss of jobs started long before Obama was elected something else not controlled by presidents). So, yes, it is BS. Silly, partisan, BS.

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Now THATS BS.

Still blaming Bush for Obama's failure.

Truth is "elections have consequences, and the consequence of Obama's election is perpetual unemployment far above the manipulated 7.9 unemployment numbers BO's administration hangs their hat on.

Its what happens when you let the least informed Vote.

Boo Radley said:

The trouble is you think that somehow proves his point. It doesn't. The reasons for this likely have nothing to do with who is president. And the loss of jobs started long before Obama was elected something else not controlled by presidents). So, yes, it is BS. Silly, partisan, BS.

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I don't know why you seem to buy that personal hardship is justification for disability enrollment. It isn't, that's not the point of the program. For the fourth time.

There are a ton of people currently drawing disability checks who don't need it. But that doesn't necessarily mean that they are playing the system. I grew up in poverty and have a lot of friends and family who are in the welfare/disability systems. Even today, while no longer in poverty, I volunteer with groups that work with people wrapped up in the system that fairly often receive these benefits. Due to my experience in these systems and working with and being close with people in these systems I can honestly say that I believe that most Americans on disability, even for the dumbest and frivolous of reasons, truly believe they are disabled. And it is not entirely their fault. Our culture in America has become one of finding faults, blaming something, getting out of things. We have kids that we as society have been telling since they are little kids that there is something wrong with them. That they need these meds, and these, and no matter what they do its not their fault. Those kids we were doing this to 15-20 years ago and more are becoming adults. And those adults have been told since they were little these things. They have it engrained into their heads that they are defective and cannot work. We are raising generation after generation this way and this trend is going to continue. Even as adults who could be working, they are being told over and over and over by people that they can't. And when enough people tell you something enough times, and over a long enough period of time, you are going to believe it. If we want to fix the problems of people abusing the system, then we need to be teaching kids work ethic and accountability throughout their lives rather than they are broken.

Fenton said:

Now THATS BS.

Still blaming Bush for Obama's failure.

Truth is "elections have consequences, and the consequence of Obama's election is perpetual unemployment far above the manipulated 7.9 unemployment numbers BO's administration hangs their hat on.

Its what happens when you let the least informed Vote.

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You do realize that's not what I did. I said regardless of president, so no blame was put on Bush.

ReformCollege said:

I don't know why you seem to buy that personal hardship is justification for disability enrollment. It isn't, that's not the point of the program. For the fourth time.

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I believe it has been a contributing factor to what has happened, and so did the article linked in op. So, it likely is. And no one argues it is the point of the program. Many things function beyond their reason for being. This is neither new nor unusual. But fixing the problem I believe requires that we look at it realistically and honestly.

SheWolf said:

Forrest Gump was just a movie. People don't just overcome disabilities like that in real life. Exactly what disabilities are you talking about that kids can learn to overcome, but instead choose to remain disabled?

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This post shows serious ignorance. Plenty of things such as ASD's isn't just a case of "someone has it or they don't." Its in the name, a spectrum, where symptoms can range from mild to severe. Of course they may not just get better overnight, but there are plenty of cases of people learning to cope and being able to handle a natural progression in mainstream schooling even if it is challenging. But if that progression means that the child may outgrow disability benefits, then the parent doesn't want that. Such as the kid in the article whose parents told him he couldn't get a job because they'd lose benefits. That is holding someone back in my opinion.

Also, not all "disabilities" are created equal. Having dyslexia isn't the same as having Down-syndrome. I don't think anyone should be talking about getting rid of benefits for Down syndrome kids. But dyslexia still is considered a "learning disability" and can still qualify. I think that is the fundamental problem with disability benefits. It categorizes a million completely different things under one umbrella term and gives out the same benefits for anyone under the umbrella.

And lastly, there are many disorders such as ASD where symptoms are vary in a spectrum, yet it is labeled a single thing. It is the same kind of umbrella labeling. The problem is umbrella labeling and removing that umbrella labeling I think is our best solution to making disability benefits more flexible and less abusable.

Boo Radley said:

I believe it has been a contributing factor to what has happened, and so did the article linked in op. So, it likely is. And no one argues it is the point of the program. Many things function beyond their reason for being. This is neither new nor unusual. But fixing the problem I believe requires that we look at it realistically and honestly.

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Putting the cart before the horse? We can fix the program and deal with those hardships seperately. But the hardships do not justify avoiding action.

ReformCollege said:

Putting the cart before the horse? We can fix the program and deal with those hardships seperately. But the hardships do not justify avoiding action.

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Yes, we can, and should, but have not. Nor did I say it justified, but only that it is happening.

Boo Radley said:

The original comment was TDs. J just jumped in to complain.

Knee jerk reactions go both ways. I won't argue otherwise. But there is. Belief concerning fairness as strong as what conservatives hold. No one is really in favor of abuse. Often what we argue about is what side we err on. I don't mind a call to review standards and address issues. What I mind is the claim that a group is universally moochers, or that a party wants such leeches to gain votes.




I don't think anyone has been duped. I think there are major changes in circumstances forcing some to us disability as a fall back, as the article in op briefly touches on. Sure there are some people abusing the system (how many is unknown), just as there is at all levels.

And I think it is an issue, but one that needs to be dealt more by addressing the system and not demonizing people.

I didn't mean to ignore your study question. Regardless of how well defined it is or isn't, we can't make any claims with certainty without know that information.

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If the study terms aren't well defined then it is worthless study.

ReformCollege said:

If the study terms aren't well defined then it is worthless study.

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We can define them before we start. But without one, we know nothing.

ksu_aviator said:

What do you propose that people that don't show up or are habitually late are?

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No no, far be it from me to explain to you the myriad of reasons someone could be absent or late from work.

I'll leave you with this suggestion though, if you're actually curious: Read the link. The whole thing.

Many cities and counties have programs to move people from welfare to disability. There are several reasons for this:
1. In many places, welfare does not provide enough money to afford a place to live, so it keeps the homeless on the street. Disability pays enough to get a place to live.
2. Getting disability also qualifies one for home healthcare, rehabilitation, meds and other assistance.
3. Many people are genuinely disabled, often mentally, and it is cruel to leave them on the streets where their mental heallth issues impact public safety and quality of life for all.
4 Welfare ends at a certain time. Disability can be continued as long as the problem continues.
4. It shifts the cost of assistance from the county to the feds.

Those are mostly good reasons. The main disadvantage is that disability benefit rules generally discourage people from getting work. The laws should be re-examined to encourage transitioning the people capable of work into jobs. To make that work, the disabled need to be protected from problems such as losing their homes if they lose disability from taking a job and then lose their job.

Hard Truth said:

Many cities and counties have programs to move
people from welfare to disability. There are several reasons for this:
1. In many places, welfare does not provide enough money to afford a place to live, so it keeps the homeless on the street. Disability pays enough to get a place to live.
2. Getting disability also qualifies one for home healthcare, rehabilitation, meds and other assistance.
3. Many people are genuinely disabled, often mentally, and it is cruel to leave them on the streets where their mental heallth issues impact public safety and quality of life for all.
4 Welfare ends at a certain time. Disability can be continued as long as the problem continues.
4. It shifts the cost of assistance from the county to the feds.

Those are mostly good reasons. The main disadvantage is that disability benefit rules generally discourage people from getting work. The laws should be re-examined to encourage transitioning the people capable of work into jobs. To make that work, the disabled need to be protected from problems such as losing their homes if they lose disability from taking a job and then lose their job.

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This is irrelevent.

Why, in 4 years time have the number of people on disabillity doubled and what makes anyone think that this Country, already broke and borrowing 40 % of every dollar, can handle the cost of this growing massive entitlment ?

Northern Light said:

When an unacceptable number of our population has become fat and stupid, it's no mystery why so many people are on disability. Our health care system is defunct, it's cheaper to buy junk food than real food thanks to subsidies, and with unions disappearing and proposals to slash minimum wage people have to work longer hours for the privilege of remaining poor.

You call it the gravy train, I call it the necessary outcome of a corporate slavery mentality. Just keep outsourcing the jobs and destroying worker rights, and more and more people will keep turning to the government tit.

But yeah... keep blaming the disenfranchised for being disenfranchised. In the land of America, ignorance is strength, and slavery is freedom. :shrug:

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People making excuses for their failures is the new American way. No one is responsible for anything because everything is the fault of corporations. Corporations made people alcoholic, drug addicted lazy child abusers by forcing Americans to submit the way plantation owners in the South did with their slaves.:roll:

Its hilarious how rigid partisans on both sides of the issue are. Sucks you people get to vote

babilfish said:

If you honestly think your link stated loss of jobs was due to laziness, you didn't read it.

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babilfish said:

No no, far be it from me to explain to you the myriad of reasons someone could be absent or late from work.

I'll leave you with this suggestion though, if you're actually curious: Read the link. The whole thing.

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I did read the link and it says that 75% of people that move off welfare (to jobs) lose those jobs because they are habitually late/absent or in constant conflict with other personnel. That's why I posted it.

jonny5 said:

15k a year for tuition? Try $2500 a year.

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Where? Canada?

Although university tuition and housing costs vary considerably by location, the average cost of tuition, room and board, and books at a public U.S. university in 2009-10 totaled $16,153 for an in-state student:

In-state tuition: $7,020
Room and board: $8,193
Books: $940
Total: $16,153

Out-of-staters could expect to pay $18,548 for tuition alone, bringing their public school tab to $27,681.

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Average Cost of College Tuition | Statistic Brain

View attachment 67145930

I'd suggest looking up the average tuition costs in the US.