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Thread: Unfit For Work: The Startling Rise Of Disability In America

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    Re: Unfit For Work: The Startling Rise Of Disability In America

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Yes, I read the article. And I would not suggest that they may not be a problem. I would, however, suggest that there is more generalization than warranted. There is nothing shocking that hard times have led to some taking advantage of whatever they can.
    Personally, that is why identify more as a libertarian. I see people leech the system and say that is unjustifiable to me. Its obvious that its not just one out of a thousand. When one in four people in a town are claiming disability benefits for "back pain," when kids are getting held back so their parents can live off of their checks, it is a fundamental breakdown of the system. And you know what is sad to me? The people who actually do have true disabilities are the ones who get used to cover for the people who really don't need to be on the system. Using the vulnerable to protect the parasites. Beyond disgusting in my opinion.

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    Re: Unfit For Work: The Startling Rise Of Disability In America

    Quote Originally Posted by babilfish View Post
    If you honestly think your link stated loss of jobs was due to laziness, you didn't read it.
    What do you propose that people that don't show up or are habitually late are? In my world...a little place called reality...if you don't show up for work frequently and/or late, you are lazy.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dezaad View Post
    Are you ****ing kidding me? A study from 1997 doesn't illuminate anything about our current situation. Furthermore it is dishonest of you not to mention that it was from 1997, since that is exceedingly relevant to this matter. No one should listen to anything further you have to say on this, unless they have the time to fact check you first.
    It absolutely does. It shows the pattern that has always existed among those that are life long recipients of welfare. That's why welfare reform had requirements for work (undone by the Obama admin in an executive order).
    You, my brothers and sisters, were called to be free. But do not use your freedom to indulge the flesh; rather, serve one another humbly in love.For the entire law is fulfilled in keeping this one command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.”

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    Re: Unfit For Work: The Startling Rise Of Disability In America

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    opinion noted and not shared.

    the fact is current society makes it far too easy for people to claim disability
    Perhaps. But don't use it as an electoral excuse. And realize both parties played a role.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Unfit For Work: The Startling Rise Of Disability In America

    Quote Originally Posted by ReformCollege View Post
    Personally, that is why identify more as a libertarian. I see people leech the system and say that is unjustifiable to me. Its obvious that its not just one out of a thousand. When one in four people in a town are claiming disability benefits for "back pain," when kids are getting held back so their parents can live off of their checks, it is a fundamental breakdown of the system. And you know what is sad to me? The people who actually do have true disabilities are the ones who get used to cover for the people who really don't need to be on the system. Using the vulnerable to protect the parasites. Beyond disgusting in my opinion.
    I've seen no such numbers. And would like to see numbers showing how many are actually gaming he system. And I'd love to see if it his higher than the wealthy who game the system.

    Nor do I think anyone wants to protect parasites.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Unfit For Work: The Startling Rise Of Disability In America

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    I've seen no such numbers. And would like to see numbers showing how many are actually gaming he system. And I'd love to see if it his higher than the wealthy who game the system.

    Nor do I think anyone wants to protect parasites.
    Who gives a **** if its higher? Both should be dealt with regardless of which one is "more." I'm in favor of minimal tax deductions and cutting off subsidies, in exchange for lower taxes across the board. But that is a separate issue and does not have any merit in this discussion.

    And truth be told, any such statistics are nearly impossible to construct because often times such diagnosis are from patient given inputs. Its sort of like how college kids fake answers to get access to ADHD/ADD medicine. Its hard to prove in any one case that someone is lying or overexaggerating, but it's quite obvious that it is going on at a broader level.

    What needs to happen is tightening the qualifications and making disability benefits match the needs of each specific disease to prevent these things from happening in the first place. If having lower back pain only qualifies you for a back brace to allow you to continue functioning as normal, there simply isn't going to be an incentive for exaggerating or making up lower back pain. Furthermore, if children with disabilities are getting medical reimbursements rather then monthly checks for their parents, you aren't going to see parents holding their children back in school. These sort of changes can prevent fraud while actually making SSDI serve its function better, which was to help meet the needs of the disabled. Note, I say needs, which means what they need to be a productive citizen. Being able to collect a check without working is not a need.

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    Re: Unfit For Work: The Startling Rise Of Disability In America

    Quote Originally Posted by ReformCollege View Post
    Who gives a **** if its higher? Both should be dealt with regardless of which one is "more." I'm in favor of minimal tax deductions and cutting off subsidies, in exchange for lower taxes across the board. But that is a separate issue and does not have any merit in this discussion.

    And truth be told, any such statistics are nearly impossible to construct because often times such diagnosis are from patient given inputs. Its sort of like how college kids fake answers to get access to ADHD/ADD medicine. Its hard to prove in any one case that someone is lying or overexaggerating, but it's quite obvious that it is going on at a broader level.

    What needs to happen is tightening the qualifications and making disability benefits match the needs of each specific disease to prevent these things from happening in the first place. If having lower back pain only qualifies you for a back brace to allow you to continue functioning as normal, there simply isn't going to be an incentive for exaggerating or making up lower back pain. Furthermore, if children with disabilities are getting medical reimbursements rather then monthly checks for their parents, you aren't going to see parents holding their children back in school. These sort of changes can prevent fraud while actually making SSDI serve its function better, which was to help meet the needs of the disabled. Note, I say needs, which means what they need to be a productive citizen. Being able to collect a check without working is not a need.
    What matters is that we spend our time complaining about one end, but not the other. I think for consistency's sake, being honest about both, recognizing that humans tend to take advantage where they can, would go along way toward planning better.

    And yes, it is difficult to get a clear picture, but since was difficult mean abandon the effort and just assume things? No matter how difficult, we need to have a better fix on what is really the problem.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Unfit For Work: The Startling Rise Of Disability In America

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    That's bs. Just making excuses for losing. It's always someone's fault other than the candidate and party losing.

    Are you saying that in strategy circles that it was not a precept of the demo party to increase welfare roles, and actively increase voter roles through on the street registration, motor voter, and alike? If so Joe, that is incredibly dishonest to say...We have on the record proof that this was the aim of famous liberals like Cloward and Piven, and further, as recently as the Carter, and Clinton administrations I believe it was a stated goal....Groups like ACORN worked toward this dishonest end, and still do today under a million different names, but still the same group, with the same goals.
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

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    Re: Unfit For Work: The Startling Rise Of Disability In America

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    What matters is that we spend our time complaining about one end, but not the other. I think for consistency's sake, being honest about both, recognizing that humans tend to take advantage where they can, would go along way toward planning better.
    Oh please spare us the deflection tactics. You may think this approach clever, however, it is merely another application of silencing dissent by using a twist on the old playground tactic of 2nd graders, which goes something like..."Well, Johnny did it, so it's ok for me to do it too.".....

    And yes, it is difficult to get a clear picture, but since was difficult mean abandon the effort and just assume things? No matter how difficult, we need to have a better fix on what is really the problem.
    The problem is clear, no matter how the cause of the problem would like to mask it in a thousand shades of grey.
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

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    Re: Unfit For Work: The Startling Rise Of Disability In America

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Are you saying that in strategy circles that it was not a precept of the demo party to increase welfare roles, and actively increase voter roles through on the street registration, motor voter, and alike? If so Joe, that is incredibly dishonest to say...We have on the record proof that this was the aim of famous liberals like Cloward and Piven, and further, as recently as the Carter, and Clinton administrations I believe it was a stated goal....Groups like ACORN worked toward this dishonest end, and still do today under a million different names, but still the same group, with the same goals.
    I'm saying dependence is not something they desire any more than republicans.

    Those groups you mention are largely in response to real problems, and many of those people are hard workers who seek to help, and not hinder.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Unfit For Work: The Startling Rise Of Disability In America

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Oh please spare us the deflection tactics. You may think this approach clever, however, it is merely another application of silencing dissent by using a twist on the old playground tactic of 2nd graders, which goes something like..."Well, Johnny did it, so it's ok for me to do it too.".....
    No, I thin it is honest and not deflection. In fact, to call it deflections is actually more real deflection that anything I do. Why is the poor taking advantage of the system worse than the wealthy? This is a fair question.

    The problem is clear, no matter how the cause of the problem would like to mask it in a thousand shades of grey.
    The trouble is often those who don't question what they think is clear often are wrong. It is often much better to actually be able to support your conclusions. Saying it is difficult to do, so it's clear is kind of weak, don't ya think?

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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