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Thread: Unfit For Work: The Startling Rise Of Disability In America

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    Re: Unfit For Work: The Startling Rise Of Disability In America

    Quote Originally Posted by babilfish View Post
    Oh, so you did read the article! Wonderful.

    Though, how you came to the stupid conclusion that it illustrates the problem of a "lack of a tight ship", whatever that means, is beyond me.

    I mean, really? Disability isn't something that is well defined? THAT'S what you got from the article?

    You clearly skimmed over it with the same typical conservative blinders I spoke of earlier, where you only read the portion you want to read and ignore everything else.
    Tell us babil, what's your thoughts on the ssdi article?

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    Re: Unfit For Work: The Startling Rise Of Disability In America

    Quote Originally Posted by ReformCollege View Post
    It goes both ways BR. People overgeneralize that the poor are some helpless creatures running in quicksand trying to pay for everything with no hope for the future, and they also overgeneralize that personal responsibility and hardwork are the sole determinants of success. Both sides usually use more extreme examples to prove their case, and I think that it usually lies somewhere in between for any given individual. However, I do think that on average looking at an overall population, people are more likely to improve their circumstances when they make personally responsible choices and work hard; even if results may vary from person to person.
    I certainly agree it goes both ways, and would prefer the discussion focus not on personal stories and limited observations but actual statistical and factual information.

    And while you make one if those "duh" statements, the fact remains that poverty will exist even if everyone makes near perfect choices. Odds are better for the individual with better choices, but not a cure all. Even when there was no welfare, there. We're poor people. And largely they suffered. History is full of their stories.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Unfit For Work: The Startling Rise Of Disability In America

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    All I can say is that if taxpayers only knew...
    one party derives electoral benefits by having as many people as possible attached to the government umbilical cord or sucking on the government tits

    when you subsidize dependence you increase it



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    Re: Unfit For Work: The Startling Rise Of Disability In America

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    one party derives electoral benefits by having as many people as possible attached to the government umbilical cord or sucking on the government tits

    when you subsidize dependence you increase it
    That's bs. Just making excuses for losing. It's always someone's fault other than the candidate and party losing.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Unfit For Work: The Startling Rise Of Disability In America

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    That's bs. Just making excuses for losing. It's always someone's fault other than the candidate and party losing.
    I said nothing about losing. as a labor attorney I know how many people claim disability in order to suck on the public teat. I also know that the democratic party encourages people to be on the public teat so they have to support the teat being filled with milk.



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    Re: Unfit For Work: The Startling Rise Of Disability In America

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    I certainly agree it goes both ways, and would prefer the discussion focus not on personal stories and limited observations but actual statistical and factual information.

    And while you make one if those "duh" statements, the fact remains that poverty will exist even if everyone makes near perfect choices. Odds are better for the individual with better choices, but not a cure all. Even when there was no welfare, there. We're poor people. And largely they suffered. History is full of their stories.
    Poverty will always exist because it is usually a relative measure. Being poor in the U.S. and being poor in Kenya are two different things. That is sort of a "well duh," but everywhere in between the meaning of poverty changes continuously. We could reach a point in a distant where everyone in America owned their own home, owned two cars, put their kids through college without loans, and paid for their own healthcare; and this would be considered "barely getting by" because the family doesn't have three cars or a second house or whatever.

    The burden of proof is on you here. The fact is that humans are not perfect and will never make perfect decisions. One can still gain a very sizable advantage over his or her peers while still making less then perfect choices. Its the major screw ups in life, such as having a kid out of wedlock, dropping out, not obtaining any marketable skills (not just from college) etc. that set people back a long way. Also if everyone made perfect decisions, then everyone would be perfectly productive and yes we would get rid of poverty quite extremely quickly. That is clearly never going to be the case however, but I have no doubt that if we at least improved the demographics of good decisions vs. bad decisions it would lead us to be better off. If we had less people who have a fatherless kid as a teenager, we would be better off because we would have less people being structurally held back from any sort of upward mobility.


    Were there poor people before welfare? Yes. Some people struggled. But it is you who said we should look at statistics rather then personal stories and I would point out that we saw a vastly higher amount of wage growth when we did not have welfare and disability insurance than we have in the last 50 or something years when we did.

    I hope you did read the article behind the OP, because what it is talking about is a very dangerous prescient.

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    Re: Unfit For Work: The Startling Rise Of Disability In America

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    I said nothing about losing. as a labor attorney I know how many people claim disability in order to suck on the public teat. I also know that the democratic party encourages people to be on the public teat so they have to support the teat being filled with milk.
    When you speak to electoral benefits, you are talking about elections and making excuses for losing.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Unfit For Work: The Startling Rise Of Disability In America

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    When you speak to electoral benefits, you are talking about elections and making excuses for losing.
    wrong as usual
    the people who lose are Americans not parties

    but I note your support for putting as many people as possible on the public tit



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    Re: Unfit For Work: The Startling Rise Of Disability In America

    Quote Originally Posted by ksu_aviator View Post
    Except when that view is backed by a study: http://research.upjohn.org/cgi/viewc...=empl_research



    73% lose their jobs because they either don't show up, show up later, or argue with their boss (probably about having to actually do something to earn their paycheck).
    Are you ****ing kidding me? A study from 1997 doesn't illuminate anything about our current situation. Furthermore it is dishonest of you not to mention that it was from 1997, since that is exceedingly relevant to this matter. No one should listen to anything further you have to say on this, unless they have the time to fact check you first.
    You can never be safe from a government that can keep you completely safe from each other and the world. You must choose.

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    Re: Unfit For Work: The Startling Rise Of Disability In America

    Quote Originally Posted by ReformCollege View Post
    Poverty will always exist because it is usually a relative measure. Being poor in the U.S. and being poor in Kenya are two different things. That is sort of a "well duh," but everywhere in between the meaning of poverty changes continuously. We could reach a point in a distant where everyone in America owned their own home, owned two cars, put their kids through college without loans, and paid for their own healthcare; and this would be considered "barely getting by" because the family doesn't have three cars or a second house or whatever.

    The burden of proof is on you here. The fact is that humans are not perfect and will never make perfect decisions. One can still gain a very sizable advantage over his or her peers while still making less then perfect choices. Its the major screw ups in life, such as having a kid out of wedlock, dropping out, not obtaining any marketable skills (not just from college) etc. that set people back a long way. Also if everyone made perfect decisions, then everyone would be perfectly productive and yes we would get rid of poverty quite extremely quickly. That is clearly never going to be the case however, but I have no doubt that if we at least improved the demographics of good decisions vs. bad decisions it would lead us to be better off. If we had less people who have a fatherless kid as a teenager, we would be better off because we would have less people being structurally held back from any sort of upward mobility.


    Were there poor people before welfare? Yes. Some people struggled. But it is you who said we should look at statistics rather then personal stories and I would point out that we saw a vastly higher amount of wage growth when we did not have welfare and disability insurance than we have in the last 50 or something years when we did.

    I hope you did read the article behind the OP, because what it is talking about is a very dangerous prescient.
    Yes, I read the article. And I would not suggest that they may not be a problem. I would, however, suggest that there is more generalization than warranted. There is nothing shocking that hard times have led to some taking advantage of whatever they can.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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