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Thread: US Marine kills two colleagues at Quantico base

  1. #131
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    Re: US Marine kills two colleagues at Quantico base

    Interesting to see the military fighting with the NRA -


    Gun control: Why the US military is fighting with the NRA

    "US military commanders are increasingly expressing frustration with the National Rifle Association for blocking what they feel are vital measures to keep troops safe.

    The controversy revolves around the surge in suicide within the armed forces. The Pentagon is facing an “epidemic,” Defense Secretary Leon Panetta told lawmakers this week, with some 206 US troops suspected of taking their own lives so far this year.

    “That is an epidemic,” he said. “Something is wrong.”

    As they cast about looking for possible ways to bring down the rates of suicide, commanders say that the answer may lie in having candid discussions with their soldiers about their personal firearms--and to take personal weapons away from those who appear likely to hurt themselves.

    “The majority of [suicides] have two things in common: Alcohol and a gun. That’s just the way it is,” General Peter Chiarelli, the Army’s former Vice Chief of Staff, told the Monitor this January, shortly before he retired. “And when you have somebody that you in fact feel is high risk, I don’t believe it’s unreasonable to tell that individual that it would not be a good idea to have a weapon around the house.”

    The problem, say US military commanders, is that a new NRA-backed law prohibits them from engaging in discussions about weapons and safety.
    “I am not allowed to ask a soldier who lives off-post whether that soldier has a privately-owned weapon,” Chiarelli says. The legislation took effect at the end of 2010.

    While commanders are permitted to ask troops who appear to be an imminent danger to themselves or others about private firearms--or to suggest locking them temporarily in a base depot--the law requires that if the soldier denies that he or she is thinking about harming anyone, then the commander cannot pursue the discussion further, he adds."

    "Half of troops that killed themselves use firearms to end their life and “suicide in most cases is a spontaneous event” that is often fueled by drugs and alcohol. But “if you can separate the individual from the weapon,” he added, “you can lower the incidences of suicide.”

    Gun control: Why the US military is fighting with the NRA - CSMonitor.com
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  2. #132
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    Re: US Marine kills two colleagues at Quantico base

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Interesting to see the military fighting with the NRA -


    Gun control: Why the US military is fighting with the NRA

    "US military commanders are increasingly expressing frustration with the National Rifle Association for blocking what they feel are vital measures to keep troops safe.

    The controversy revolves around the surge in suicide within the armed forces. The Pentagon is facing an “epidemic,” Defense Secretary Leon Panetta told lawmakers this week, with some 206 US troops suspected of taking their own lives so far this year.

    “That is an epidemic,” he said. “Something is wrong.”

    As they cast about looking for possible ways to bring down the rates of suicide, commanders say that the answer may lie in having candid discussions with their soldiers about their personal firearms--and to take personal weapons away from those who appear likely to hurt themselves.

    “The majority of [suicides] have two things in common: Alcohol and a gun. That’s just the way it is,” General Peter Chiarelli, the Army’s former Vice Chief of Staff, told the Monitor this January, shortly before he retired. “And when you have somebody that you in fact feel is high risk, I don’t believe it’s unreasonable to tell that individual that it would not be a good idea to have a weapon around the house.”

    The problem, say US military commanders, is that a new NRA-backed law prohibits them from engaging in discussions about weapons and safety.
    “I am not allowed to ask a soldier who lives off-post whether that soldier has a privately-owned weapon,” Chiarelli says. The legislation took effect at the end of 2010.

    While commanders are permitted to ask troops who appear to be an imminent danger to themselves or others about private firearms--or to suggest locking them temporarily in a base depot--the law requires that if the soldier denies that he or she is thinking about harming anyone, then the commander cannot pursue the discussion further, he adds."

    "Half of troops that killed themselves use firearms to end their life and “suicide in most cases is a spontaneous event” that is often fueled by drugs and alcohol. But “if you can separate the individual from the weapon,” he added, “you can lower the incidences of suicide.”

    Gun control: Why the US military is fighting with the NRA - CSMonitor.com
    Those damn civil rights! Keep getting in the way every damn time!

    Confiscating private firearms from soldier isn't going to to keep them from killing themselves. What's next? Are all the bed sheets in the barracks going to be taken away because a soldier could hang himself?

    The United States military has the authority to put troops into protective custody, if there's a concern that they will harm themselves. If that's not what's being done, then there are some clowns in the Pentagon that are allowing soldiers to off themselves and doing nothing about it, for political reasons.

    If the anti-gunners REALLY gave two hoots about our servicemen, they would demand that the heads of the people not excercising that authority should roll. But, we all know it has nothing to do with the troops and more to do with politics.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

  3. #133
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    Re: US Marine kills two colleagues at Quantico base

    I don't know about Army guys, but as a Marine if I carried a firearm on my uniform that was not issued, I was out of uniform. If my pen stuck up out of my pocket on my cami's I was out of uniform. There is just a lot more that goes into this.
    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Those damn civil rights! Keep getting in the way every damn time!

    Confiscating private firearms from soldier isn't going to to keep them from killing themselves. What's next? Are all the bed sheets in the barracks going to be taken away because a soldier could hang himself?

    The United States military has the authority to put troops into protective custody, if there's a concern that they will harm themselves. If that's not what's being done, then there are some clowns in the Pentagon that are allowing soldiers to off themselves and doing nothing about it, for political reasons.

    If the anti-gunners REALLY gave two hoots about our servicemen, they would demand that the heads of the people not excercising that authority should roll. But, we all know it has nothing to do with the troops and more to do with politics.
    God Bless the Marine Corps.

  4. #134
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    Re: US Marine kills two colleagues at Quantico base

    Quote Originally Posted by spud_meister View Post
    Military bases should be gun free zones!
    Besides FOBs, they are. Only authorized personnel authorized to carry authorized weapons are authorized to carry firearms on post, but only at the authorized time and place.
    I love the NSA. It's like having a secret fan-base you will never see, but they're there, watching everything you write and it makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside knowing that I may be some person's only form of unconstitutional entertainment one night.

  5. #135
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    Re: US Marine kills two colleagues at Quantico base

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Those damn civil rights! Keep getting in the way every damn time!

    Confiscating private firearms from soldier isn't going to to keep them from killing themselves. What's next? Are all the bed sheets in the barracks going to be taken away because a soldier could hang himself?

    The United States military has the authority to put troops into protective custody, if there's a concern that they will harm themselves. If that's not what's being done, then there are some clowns in the Pentagon that are allowing soldiers to off themselves and doing nothing about it, for political reasons.

    If the anti-gunners REALLY gave two hoots about our servicemen, they would demand that the heads of the people not excercising that authority should roll. But, we all know it has nothing to do with the troops and more to do with politics.


    It isn't the Pentagon Apdst, it is "US military commanders." But it is noted that you disagree with their views.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  6. #136
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    Re: US Marine kills two colleagues at Quantico base

    OK, how about a compromise: We can let gays get married, provided they both own guns.


    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post
    This issue has been plowed more times than Paris Hilton.
    Quote Originally Posted by Oborosen View Post
    Too bad we have to observe human rights.

  7. #137
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    Re: US Marine kills two colleagues at Quantico base

    Quote Originally Posted by mak2 View Post
    I don't know about Army guys, but as a Marine if I carried a firearm on my uniform that was not issued, I was out of uniform. If my pen stuck up out of my pocket on my cami's I was out of uniform. There is just a lot more that goes into this.
    his pistol being non-issued didn't stop one of my Marines from sending a round through his heart. Apparently he forgot to check with Catawba to make sure that he was authorized to do so

  8. #138
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    Re: US Marine kills two colleagues at Quantico base

    What years were you in? We had a Marine shoot himself in the heart too over a woman out in town.
    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    his pistol being non-issued didn't stop one of my Marines from sending a round through his heart. Apparently he forgot to check with Catawba to make sure that he was authorized to do so
    God Bless the Marine Corps.

  9. #139
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    Re: US Marine kills two colleagues at Quantico base

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    It isn't the Pentagon Apdst, it is "US military commanders." But it is noted that you disagree with their views.
    Whoever! It still boils down to the fact that the military has the authority to put potential suicided into protective custody. If this isn't being done, there are biggers problems than private firearms ownership.

    Why aren't you hyped up about obvious derelicition of duty?
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

  10. #140
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    Re: US Marine kills two colleagues at Quantico base

    Quote Originally Posted by rocket88 View Post
    OK, how about a compromise: We can let gays get married, provided they both own guns.
    What does that have to do with anything?
    I love the NSA. It's like having a secret fan-base you will never see, but they're there, watching everything you write and it makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside knowing that I may be some person's only form of unconstitutional entertainment one night.

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