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Forget Cyprus, Nobody Is Stealing from Depositors More than Bernanke

sawyerloggingon said:
Not only are we being robed of interest on our money but the way obama is printing more and more dollars the money we have goes down in value and is one of the reasons gas is so high.
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Good morning,sawyerloggingon.

I believe Bernanke is responsible for flooding more money into the system, but from what I can see, BHO certainly doesn't disagree with him! :( It's having an effect on the stock market, which is going ever upwards, which gives the appearance that things are just fine with our economy, which makes the administration look good. Unfortunately we are affected by the higher costs of everything, as it takes more dollars to stay even. The banks are happy, though!
 
Fenton said:
There may not be alot of money in the ECONOMY but the markets and the banks are deluged with excess printed currency.

Its a great time to be a bank in America right now. Their Reserves are close to record levels and since 2008 they have been paid interest on those reserves by the FED. Thats the money a bank HAS to have on hand by law.

They are paying reserves to influence overnight rates wich also effect short term interest rates.

All that money in a healthy economy with REAL wealth in circulation will lead to high inflation, devaluing the wealth thats now being sat on by the investors and corporations.

So it's the FEDs job to control that and high interest rates and lowering bank reserves is how they accomplish it.

Investors now are taking advantage of whats basically free money in the finacial markets, BUT they are watching Bernake like a hawk for ANY indication that hes going to stop pumping.

This is why HE CANT STOP. Vicious cycle.

He knows the sell off and crash thats coming if he does.

Its surreal whats been done to prop up this Presidents destructive economic policies. It should be criminal.
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still not understanding your perspective
if the money is on the sidelines and not IN the economy, then how can it be found IN the markets, as you have presented?
 
Helix said:
will do. thanks for the tip. i'm considering all of my options now that i have received indications that my job might be a bit more secure than i had thought. unfettered access to my savings isn't worth the money i'm losing in interest.
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If you have your Vanguard account linked to your bank account you can sell some of your shares and have the money wired to your bank account very quickly. You have almost immediate access to your money.

Check out that option if you go with Vanguard.

Vanguard is the worlds largest pure, no load, mutual fund. It manages assets of about $2.0 trillion.

Vanguard is owned by the funds that it manages, and as a result, it is owned by the investors in the funds (Similar to the way that a Credit Union works.).

Start learning about Vanguard: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Vanguard_Group



"Reasonable people adapt themselves to the world. Unreasonable people attempt to adat the world to themselves. All progress, therefore, depends on unreasonable people." ~ George Bernard Shaw
 
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Fenton said:
This is what Liberals refuse to accept, that Bernakes actions and Obama's data manipulation is going to equal up to a lot of pain the next time a grown up is elected as President
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Who is that 'grown up' going to be?

Someone like Mitt Romney, eh? :lamo

Give me a frickin' break.

The far right losers in the GOP are dragging the GOP to the edge of the Taliban-like evangelical's Flat Earth.

The GOP will be mighty lucky if it isn't reduced to a minor, regional, party in the not-distant future by the massive demographic change that cost it the last election.

Don't think so?

Wait and see.

No one can stop time and/or change.

Deal with it.

Have a nice day.
 
shrubnose said:
Show us the proof.

If you do have proof, pass it on to the FBI at FBI — Homepage.

If you don't have proof, you're just running your mouth.



"Reasonable people adapt themselves to the world. Unreasonable people attempt to adapt the world to themselves. All progress, therefore, depends on unreasonable people." ~ George Bernard Shaw
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I never said he was doing anything illegal. Bernanke and the federal reserve give banks near zero interest loans at the expense of the taxpayer, so that those same banks can loan to the taxpayers at 6%. It's theft, plain and simple. If you don't understand the federal reserve system, you should read up on it and come back.
 
shrubnose said:
Who is that 'grown up' going to be?

Someone like Mitt Romney, eh? :lamo

Give me a frickin' break.

The far right losers in the GOP are dragging the GOP to the edge of the Taliban-like evangelical's Flat Earth.

The GOP will be mighty lucky if it isn't reduced to a minor, regional, party in the not-distant future by the massive demographic change that cost it the last election.

Don't think so?

Wait and see.

No one can stop time and/or change.

Deal with it.

Have a nice day.
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It won't be a idiot Liberal voted in by low information voters and ideologues after BO get's through with this economy.

Who after a Democrat mandated Sub-prime Bubble Collapse focuses on a Stimulus that paid back the public sector unions and gave billions to corrupt green energy companies that don't exist anymore, and a Health Care Law that since it's inception is the cause for our continued downward spiral.

Unless you agree with Bernake's position in pumping billions of printed currency into the investment markets so the rich can get richer.

Really, he's been a miserable failure, and he has millions of useful idiots to thank for his second term.
 
RabidAlpaca said:
I never said he was doing anything illegal.
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Here's what you said at 10:07 PM, 03-21-13: "Bernanke is a crook."

Merriam-Webster Dictionary definition of 'crook' : 4 a person who engages in fraudulent or criminal practices

I rest my case.



"The only thing worse than a liar is a liar that's also a hypocrite." ~ Tennessee Williams
 
Fenton said:
It won't be a idiot Liberal voted in by low information voters and ideologues after BO get's through with this economy.
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Tell me all about it after the Democratic Party's candidate hands the GOP's candidate his backside in 2016.

The GOP really needs to wake up and join the reality-based world.




"Better days are coming." ~ But not for today's out of touch, running out of time, GOP.
 
As if a specified return on savings is a legal entitlement.. Also, despite the article's claims, Bernanke has routinely rejected the notion of a higher inflation target.
 
a351 said:
As if a specified return on savings is a legal entitlement.. Also, despite the article's claims, Bernanke has routinely rejected the notion of a higher inflation target.
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I guess that some people have never heard of the free market, and will never grasp how it works (or doesn't work, depending on how it affects you).

Any bank that wants to pay a 10% interest rate when the going rate is close to zero (not likely to happen, but not impossible) is welcome to do that, the fed will not stand in their way.

I'm sure that bank will pick up a lot of deposits.

BTW: Anyone who has a lot of cash in a bank today is stupid.

There are a lot of options out there, no one has to keep all of their money in a bank.
 
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High Inflation ---> High Fed Funds Rate

Low Inflation ---> Low Fed Funds Rate, QE to prevent deflation

If the Fed were "printing money like Monopoly," then surely we would be seeing high levels of inflation. See 1930's Germany.

Inflation, in simplest terms, is "too many dollars chasing too few goods."

Evidently, that is not quite the case.

For those of you who think contracting the money supply is the solution, see 1930's America and 1990's Japan.
 
The charge that many companies have millions and billions stashed and are not using them to grow their companies...would do so if interest rates were higher and inflation were eating their savings. Just sayin.

We are having inflation but it seems to be controlled inflation, I think its primarily due to so much leverage within the economy that we almost can't have too much money in supply. The problem is wages are mostly stagnant right now so even slow inflation is killing the middle class and those on fixed income to the point where they keep needing more help from government and more go to the point where they need help as well.

Im not saying higher interest rates will help anything but we seem to be stuck with slow growth right now and I dont think its healthy and the low interest and fed rates may be a symptom of that.
 
StringBean said:
High Inflation ---> High Fed Funds Rate

Low Inflation ---> Low Fed Funds Rate, QE to prevent deflation

If the Fed were "printing money like Monopoly," then surely we would be seeing high levels of inflation. See 1930's Germany.

Inflation, in simplest terms, is "too many dollars chasing too few goods."

Evidently, that is not quite the case.

For those of you who think contracting the money supply is the solution, see 1930's America and 1990's Japan.
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It is important to understand that those "printed from thin air" dollars aren't getting to the public. They are loaned to banks interest free so that the banks can loan it back to the government with interest. This is where that 40% of spending is coming from. When they finally get to the public you will see your inflation. It is a matter of time.

Why doesn't common sense explain to people that this is not a sustainable situation? Don't you understand the lengths to which politicians will go to cement their political power with government spending? Doesn't anybody think it through? All I see is regurgitated government numbers which are designed to make you feel good about things. Think it through. It isn't rocket science.
 
American said:
The FED interest rates have never been regulated, except by the FED itself. Why don't you stop drinking the kool-aid for a minute, for crying out loud.
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This is a meaningless comment. The Fed is the regulator.
 
Fenton said:
Bernake has backed himself into a corner with QE.

The monetizing of our short term securities is primarily to make our debt servicable.

Just a 6% rise on Treasuries and we're adding another trillion to our yearly deficits.

If he stops, investors are going to bail on bonds and eventually the massive amount of liquidity will have to be dealt with which means higher interest rates.

This is what Liberals refuse to accept, that Bernakes actions and Obama's data manipulation is going to equal up to a lot of pain the next time a grown up is elected as President.

Its a good way to stifle future economies.
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Naivety (to be kind).

Something like 99% of all government debt is fixed (minus inflation protected securities, but they make up less than 1% of the total stock of federal government debt). So, how on earth can the effective debt service rate go to 6%? Currently, the effective interest rate on gross government debt (GGD) is a little north of 2%. If we assume that by the end of fiscal year 2012, we had $16,159,487,013,300.35 in GGD, debt service for fiscal year 2012 was $359,796,008,919.49 (the lowest since 2005) and a projected 2013 deficit of $1 trilion, interest rates would have to increase to 66.975% for the 2013 deficit.

(((Debt₂₀₁₂∗EffectiveService₂₀₁₂)+(deficit₂₀₁₃∗x))/(Debt₂₀₁₃))=0.06

((((16159487013300.35∗0.022265)+(1000000000000∗x)))/((16159487013300.35+1000000000000)))=0.06

((((3. 5979×10¹¹)+(1000000000000x)))/(1. 7159×10¹³))=0.06 ; x=0.66975

So while you are correct that 66.975% interest rates on the 2013 deficit would be catastrophic, the chance of it actually occurring is zilch!

If borrowing rates in 2013 were to magically go to 6% (another unlikely scenario for reasons i will explain later), the effective cost of debt service goes to 2.4465% with a price tag of $419,806,849,780.39. This is an additional cost of $60 billion.

Let's get something straight; interest rates cannot go higher unless there is sufficient economic growth to facilitate the sheer existence of higher interest rates. Meaning: if interest rates were to go to 6%, U.S. economic output would have to be greater than or equal to 6%. This is simply a matter of fact.
 
Kushinator said:
Naivety (to be kind).

Something like 99% of all government debt is fixed (minus inflation protected securities, but they make up less than 1% of the total stock of federal government debt). So, how on earth can the effective debt service rate go to 6%? Currently, the effective interest rate on gross government debt (GGD) is a little north of 2%. If we assume that by the end of fiscal year 2012, we had $16,159,487,013,300.35 in GGD, debt service for fiscal year 2012 was $359,796,008,919.49 (the lowest since 2005) and a projected 2013 deficit of $1 trilion, interest rates would have to increase to 66.975% for the 2013 deficit.

(((Debt₂₀₁₂∗EffectiveService₂₀₁₂)+(deficit₂₀₁₃∗x))/(Debt₂₀₁₃))=0.06

((((16159487013300.35∗0.022265)+(1000000000000∗x)))/((16159487013300.35+1000000000000)))=0.06

((((3. 5979×10¹¹)+(1000000000000x)))/(1. 7159×10¹³))=0.06 ; x=0.66975

So while you are correct that 66.975% interest rates on the 2013 deficit would be catastrophic, the chance of it actually occurring is zilch!

If borrowing rates in 2013 were to magically go to 6% (another unlikely scenario for reasons i will explain later), the effective cost of debt service goes to 2.4465% with a price tag of $419,806,849,780.39. This is an additional cost of $60 billion.

Let's get something straight; interest rates cannot go higher unless there is sufficient economic growth to facilitate the sheer existence of higher interest rates. Meaning: if interest rates were to go to 6%, U.S. economic output would have to be greater than or equal to 6%. This is simply a matter of fact.
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First off Kush, my "Naivete" is completely justified given the obvious indication of the Fed perpetual pumping. That Obama-nomics is a complete failure.

Massive amounts of cheap currency is not equaling higher growth and sooner or later we're going to be reminded that the gimmicks and accounting tricks of this administration and the Fed are not immune from substantial market forces of the past.

The Feds driving up of commodity prices exclusively hurts the middle class as does the Fed's perpetual lowering of interest rates as savings become worthless in terms of earning power. Plus the real concern over creating a asset bubble as investors keep a close watch on the Fed's pumping.

The Debt Markets are shot so investors have moved into public equities, eventually when yields rise investors will sell off bonds and assets and it will take even higher yields to keep the bond market a viable option for investors.

Not too mention the outstanding balance on derivatives world wide now sits at about 700 trillion. There's no bailing in bank out if the European Crisis and the US's economic stupidity continue worsen.

We've got student loan defaults at record levels, total debt and unfunded liabilities continue to rise at record rates. Consumers are not responding to lower interest rates in any number that would add up to REAL GROWTH because of massive amounts of existing debt and a President who continues on with his plan to increase taxes through blatant and insidious methods.

You keep mentioning growth but I guarantee there will no NO substantial growth for the next 5 years or more as the reality of Obama-Care hits the middle class family.
 
shrubnose said:
The far right losers in the GOP are dragging the GOP to the edge of the Taliban-like evangelical's Flat Earth.
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Show us the proof.

If you do have proof, who on the "far right" is a "Taliban-like evangelical." show it.

If you don't have proof, you're just running your mouth.

The GOP will be mighty lucky if it isn't reduced to a minor, regional, party in the not-distant future by the massive demographic change that cost it the last election.

Don't think so?
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No, I dont. The GOP holds the House, Holds a majority of governorships and state legislatures and (granted were it not for some suspect Senate candidates) would potentially have a slight majority in the US Senate. What they dont hold and what they have trouble gaining a majority of votes for is the presidency. Here there is no reason the GOP couldnt put together an argument to attract the growing Hispanic community and they should have been able, years ago, to put together a coherent argument to blacks exposing the failure of leftist policies to do anything to improve their lot in life.
 
Fletch said:
Show us the proof.
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Take a look at the results of last November's election.

In about thirty years non-Hispanic Whites will be a minority in the USA. Few in the new majority which will be composed of a number of minorities will be voting for the xenophobic, racist, misogynist, homophobes on the far right who hate, fear, and despise them.

Don't think so? Wait and see.

No one can stop time and/or change.

"What goes around, comes around."

Deal with it.

And have a nice day.



"Better days are coming." ~ But not for today's out of touch, running out of time, GOP.
 
Fenton said:
Massive amounts of cheap currency is not equaling higher growth and sooner or later we're going to be reminded that the gimmicks and accounting tricks of this administration and the Fed are not immune from substantial market forces of the past.
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This is not a response to my post. It is simply partisan rhetoric lacking substance.

The Feds driving up of commodity prices exclusively hurts the middle class as does the Fed's perpetual lowering of interest rates as savings become worthless in terms of earning power. Plus the real concern over creating a asset bubble as investors keep a close watch on the Fed's pumping.
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Again, this is not a response to my post. U.S. monetary policy does not dictate commodity prices.

The Debt Markets are shot so investors have moved into public equities, eventually when yields rise investors will sell off bonds and assets and it will take even higher yields to keep the bond market a viable option for investors.
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This does not even make sense.

Not too mention the outstanding balance on derivatives world wide now sits at about 700 trillion. There's no bailing in bank out if the European Crisis and the US's economic stupidity continue worsen.
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This is not a response to my post. If you do not have even a basic understanding of derivatives markets, why attempt to use a notional figure to make a political point? Because you don't know what you are talking about....

We've got student loan defaults at record levels, total debt and unfunded liabilities continue to rise at record rates. Consumers are not responding to lower interest rates in any number that would add up to REAL GROWTH because of massive amounts of existing debt and a President who continues on with his plan to increase taxes through blatant and insidious methods.
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Again, this is not a response to my post.

You keep mentioning growth but I guarantee there will no NO substantial growth for the next 5 years or more as the reality of Obama-Care hits the middle class family.
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Who cares what you guarantee. Interest rates going to 6% will not add trillions to our deficit. That was nonsense. If you can refute the post you were (only by name) responding to, why go off on a partisan tangent instead of actually addressing ANYTHING I HAVE STATED?
 
shrubnose said:
Take a look at the results of last November's election.

In about thirty years non-Hispanic Whites will be a minority in the USA. Few in the new majority which will be composed of a number of minorities will be voting for the xenophobic, racist, misogynist, homophobes on the far right who hate, fear, and despise them.

Don't think so? Wait and see.

No one can stop time and/or change.

"What goes around, comes around."

Deal with it.

And have a nice day.



"Better days are coming." ~ But not for today's out of touch, running out of time, GOP.
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Well, all I see from you is a bunch of name calling and wishful thinking; or as you put it, 'running your mouth.'

Deal with that.
 
Fletch said:
Deal with that.
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You do not know exactly what the future holds, nor do I.

Neither of us has a time machine.

I am just projecting current trends. (The exact same thing that GOP leaders are doing, BTW.)

That's why I say "wait and see".

Believe what you want to believe.

When the future gets here, we'll know what happened.
 
Well, its official. Cyprus is going to steal 40% of savings accounts with more than 100,000 Euros.

The revised accord spares bank accounts below the insured limit of 100,000 euros. It imposes losses that two EU officials said would be no more than 40 percent on uninsured depositors at Bank of Cyprus Plc, the largest bank, which will take over the viable assets of Cyprus Popular Bank Pcl (CPB), the second biggest.
Cyprus Popular Bank, 84 percent owned by the government, will be wound down. Those who will be largely wiped out include uninsured depositors and bondholders, including senior creditors. Senior bondholders will also contribute to the recapitalization of Bank of Cyprus.
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Samhain said:
Well, its official. Cyprus is going to steal 40% of savings accounts with more than 100,000 Euros.
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This is a loud-and-clear warning of where we're headed eventually, given the entirely unsustainable policies and debt-ridden practices America is practicing every second of every day.

We're still kicking the can down the road, and we're already in the cul-de-sac. So is most of Europe.

Meanwhile, China and Russia sit and watch.

Funny and telling, the CNN spin on this with their headline, "Cyprus saved from financial ruin". What a socialistic way of twisting this.
 
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http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/...uro-in-future-crises-says-eurozone-chief.html

The euro fell on global markets after Jeroen Dijsselbloem, the Dutch chairman of the eurozone, announced that the heavy losses inflicted on depositors in Cyprus would be the template for future banking crises across Europe.
"If there is a risk in a bank, our first question should be 'Okay, what are you in the bank going to do about that? What can you do to recapitalise yourself?'," he said.
"If the bank can't do it, then we'll talk to the shareholders and the bondholders, we'll ask them to contribute in recapitalising the bank, and if necessary the uninsured deposit holders."
Ditching a three-year-old policy of protecting senior bondholders and large depositors, over €100,000, in banks, Mr Dijsselbloem argued that the lack of market contagion surrounding Cyprus showed that private investors could now be hit to pay for bad banking debts.
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Now that they've done it in one bank, watch it expand to the rest.....

Then they will expand it to 401k, 403b, and every other fund they can get their hands on.
 
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