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Thread: Explosion at Nevada Military Site May Have Killed "Several"......

  1. #41
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    Re: Explosion at Nevada Military Site May Have Killed "Several"......

    **** man. It's hard to imagine soldiers being killed outside of a war zone, but that just goes to show how dangerous the equipment is that they handle. Hope the families can get through this.
    "Human kindness has never weakened the stamina or softened the fiber of a free people. A nation does not have to be cruel to be tough."
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    Re: Explosion at Nevada Military Site May Have Killed "Several"......

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    If the round cooked off inside the tube, the fragments from the tube would create more lethality than what the round could create by itself.
    Yeah, but also reduced the blast radius.

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    Re: Explosion at Nevada Military Site May Have Killed "Several"......

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    Yeah, being cliche is disrespectful because it's not genuine. Save it for the Hallmark cards. "Heaven needed more heros"? Seriously? What a bunch of crap. Your post was little better than Harry Reid blaming the accident on the sequestration today.

    Fact is when you send more than 3-4 rounds down the tube you start risking a cook-off, especially if it's humid. From all we know so far, maybe the rounds were old. That's not 'heaven needing more heros', that's the armory making a big mistake. Maybe the team fired off to many rounds causing a cook-off. That's not 'heaven needing more heros', that's the fire team making a big mistake. Maybe the mortar was defective. That's not 'heaven needing more heros', that's the manufacturer making a big mistake.

    Under normal conditions, mortars are safe to handle and use. This isn't divine intervention, this isn't a ray of sunshine from the heavens disrupting the laws of nature and causing a supernatural event. Someone ****ed up. This was completely preventable.

    I realize a lot of people want to resort to cliche bull**** because they're trying to cope, but the cold hard truth is this didn't have to happen, these Marines did not have to die, their deaths did not serve the greater good.
    You know, I reserved my opinion of you from the tuition assistance thread we were debating in but this one solidifies what I think of you. I'll keep that to myself as we are not in a section of this forum that allows that sort of exchange. To the point of the thread. I know you're a boot so let me school you up on your terminology because you are obviously not read up on indirect fire or the practice of it.

    1) Most likely, if the military has halted firing of the round, that means they suspect that lot of round is defective. This has happened numerous times in the past few years because DOD is trying to skimp on spending by making us fire legacy rounds in all facets of combat arms.
    Exhibit A) I was in Afghanistan in 2010 and an arty unit fired an illum round. The round functioned 100m outside of the tube. They halted firing of all visible illumination rounds and base ejecting fuzes until the investigation was over. Result? The fuzes were defective.
    Exhibit B) A unit in 2nd BN 10th Marines fired an artillery round that detonated in the tube wounding 10. It was later found that the fuze was defective and all fuzes of that make are still on the do not fire list.
    Marines, sailors hurt in Bragg explosion - Army News | News from Afghanistan & Iraq - Army Times
    I say all of this because I noticed that you decided to "like" posts by other users that were very disrespectful of your fellow servicemembers. Especially the post alluding to withholding pity for these guys because they blew themselves up. You want to rant and rave about what you deserve in other threads but you can't give these guys the respect they deserve. At least what they deserve doesn't cost any taxpayer money, any of your's or my time, and nothing more than your silence if you agree with some of the heinous things being said on this thread.
    2) The armory has nothing to do with ammo. That's where you draw weapons. What you were looking for was Ammunition Supply Point or ASP. It was most likely not the ASP's fault either if the round was defective (unless the round was Grade 3). That would be the responsibility of Joint Munitions Command.
    3) This was not a cook off. A cook off is the act of a round prematurely being expended without the operator's input. In other words, the weapons system functions normally but the propellant prematurely ignites beginning the explosive train. The round still leaves the tube and goes where the tube is oriented. What this was is either a sticker round or an in bore explosion due to a faulty round. The heat of the tube does not cause the actual round to detonate. You should know that. The friggin round is point detonating, not heat detonated. You can literally put an open flame to a mortar or artillery round and it will not go off.

    I would be defending these guys if they were Army, National Guard, or any other service. It's not because they're Marines. And I do believe that they are worthy of being called heroes. They were training to defend our nation. Something you and I both do as well. I don't care if it comes down that one of them or all of them were at fault. They were still training for combat. Ground side guys (I don't know what you are) risk their life everytime they train. It's hard to train for combat and not have accidents or incidents. Many people don't realize the risk taken by servicemembers everyday during training. That is heroic. The definition of heroic is a: exhibiting or marked by courage and daring b: supremely noble or self-sacrificing. Is it not courageous, daring, and self sacrificing to jump out of an airplane, deal with explosives that may kill you, trust the Marine on a machine gun to not shoot you in the back while maneuvering, etc during training? Yes, it is.
    “Mr. Speaker, I once again find myself compelled to vote against the annual budget resolution for a very simple reason: it makes government bigger.” ― Ron Paul
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    Re: Explosion at Nevada Military Site May Have Killed "Several"......

    Quote Originally Posted by MarineTpartier View Post
    You know, I reserved my opinion of you from the tuition assistance thread we were debating in but this one solidifies what I think of you.
    You aren't anyone, that I should worry about your opinion of me.

    You're right, I'm not trained in indirect fire. I'm an engineer, not infantry, it's not my MOS and I don't claim to know everything about it. I appreciate correct nomenclature and I accept your correction.

    As for the feel-good 'heaven needed more heros' bull****....saying something stupid like that is worse than incorrectly speaking of a cook-off. You're basic human being should know better than to say something stupid like that. I have exactly zero respect for people like that. Save it for Facebook.
    Last edited by Jerry; 03-20-13 at 09:55 PM.

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    Re: Explosion at Nevada Military Site May Have Killed "Several"......

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    Yeah, but also reduced the blast radius.
    Some, yes..........................
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Explosion at Nevada Military Site May Have Killed "Several"......

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Some, yes..........................
    I can't imagine but quite alot. I was an 0351 back in the day, and dealt a medium bit with small demolitions. I wouldn't be able to do the math off-hand, but a single 60mm mortar round would have a lot of blast absorbed by breaking through a mortar tube.

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    Re: Explosion at Nevada Military Site May Have Killed "Several"......

    Quote Originally Posted by MarineTpartier View Post
    I would be defending these guys if they were Army, National Guard, or any other service. It's not because they're Marines. And I do believe that they are worthy of being called heroes. They were training to defend our nation. Something you and I both do as well. I don't care if it comes down that one of them or all of them were at fault. They were still training for combat. Ground side guys (I don't know what you are) risk their life everytime they train. It's hard to train for combat and not have accidents or incidents. Many people don't realize the risk taken by servicemembers everyday during training. That is heroic. The definition of heroic is a: exhibiting or marked by courage and daring b: supremely noble or self-sacrificing. Is it not courageous, daring, and self sacrificing to jump out of an airplane, deal with explosives that may kill you, trust the Marine on a machine gun to not shoot you in the back while maneuvering, etc during training? Yes, it is.
    No hey I have no issue with that...paying respect is great even to the lowest military positions (not saying these guys were in such positions, just making the general statement that even the most inglorious never-deployed clerk deserves respect). I consider every member of infantry greater than myself because while I pulled my share of duties, I don't think I was ever 'in the ****' they way infantry are...not even close. Everyone gets mortared, everyone gets IED'd, every convoy/ECP takes small-arms fire...that I went through those events does not make me special.

    You're complaining about lavish chow-halls, I'm complaining about a suspended TA program...neither of us are complaining about a blown off limb, and I think we need to keep that sort of context in mind when we talk about 'heros'.

    This was not enemy fire, this was not a combat mission...this was a training accident. I'm sorry but there's nothing heroic about a training accident. It's just a tragedy. Yes they were very honorable people and yes they deserve respect....but when you toss around 'hero' so generically is disrespects those who actually earned it.

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    Re: Explosion at Nevada Military Site May Have Killed "Several"......

    Quote Originally Posted by MMC View Post
    Looks Like Heaven was in need of some more Heroes!
    ...and just a quick FYI: if you don't want people like me entering your thread with contrary opinions...use the RIP tag when you make the thread. I respect the RIP tag, it's like a funeral and gives your thread a certain level of decorum. People like me will either play nice or leave those threads alone, and disrespecting an RIP tag will get the offender infraction points.

    When you don't use the RIP tag, opinions like mine are fair-game to post.

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    Re: Explosion at Nevada Military Site May Have Killed "Several"......

    What fires me up isn't a dozen servicemen injured or killed in a training exercise.

    What FIRES me up is thousands of our brave soldiers dying to fight an unjust war that was sold to us with lies.

    Saddam had no WMD's and no ties to the planning of 9/11.

    You should damn well be FIRED up about that.

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    Re: Explosion at Nevada Military Site May Have Killed "Several"......

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    I can't imagine but quite alot. I was an 0351 back in the day, and dealt a medium bit with small demolitions. I wouldn't be able to do the math off-hand, but a single 60mm mortar round would have a lot of blast absorbed by breaking through a mortar tube.
    You have to account for the pressure that doesn't escape through the muzzle building up, too. I'm not able to do the math to figger that, either.

    On another note, do 60 crews operate with line platoons, stay close to company headquarters, or remain organic to the weapons platoon?
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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