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Thread: Steubenville High School football players found guilty of raping 16-year-old [W:245]

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    Re: Steubenville High School football players found guilty of raping 16-year-old girl

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    Good post but I would quibble with your claim that "It's a culture which allows men to do that to a woman without feeling ashamed of themselves that contributes to rape"..

    I'm a man and feel as strongly about rape as any woman would do, and believe that the great majority of men feel the same way.. It's as unfair to lump all men together as it is to lump all women together.

    2 teens charged with threatening victim in Ohio rape case

    Read more: 2 teens charged with threatening victim in Ohio rape case | Fox News

    The teens charged with threatening the victim are GIRLS.. They started on social media within an hour of the verdict. Now the authorities are going after the parents who hosted the party.

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    Re: Steubenville High School football players found guilty of raping 16-year-old girl

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    If you refuse to tell people how they can keep themselves safe than you are not helping them in making good choices to avoid situations like what happened to this young girl.
    Of course you can tell girls how to keep themselves safe. That is not the same thing as evaluating this girl as "irresponsible." This girl was too trusting because she had been socialized to believe that her friends were caring and concerned and these boys were honorable. If there is anything that rape teaches a rape victim, it is that no human being on earth is really trustworthy - that you have only yourself to rely on as a friend and as an honorable person. That teaches you to take care of yourself by reserving your trust for yourself and God, not human others.

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    Re: Steubenville High School football players found guilty of raping 16-year-old girl

    Quote Originally Posted by Dion View Post
    I do not like this. Three teens get rip roaring drunk. Those boys were wrong yet are they really rapists if a teen female their age gets plastered out of her minds and leaves with them holding hands? Were they drunk as well?

    No doubt they were in the wrong yet ... if you get inebriated and naked around inebriated teen boys there is no good outcome.

    I feel for everyone involved. Those boys should be in JV detention and educated and so should the girl!

    Okay ... kill me people.

    There were no reliable witnesses as they were all drunk ... before she drank herself to a comatose state ...did she say or do anything that led them to believe she was consenting to touching.

    The electronic age and kids sext ... including the girl.

    I have a teen son and had to educate him because teen girls often sent pictures of themselves nude. I told him to never respond to them as he would get in trouble and not the girl.

    They were all drunk and there are no witnesses to declare those boys were rapists beyond a shadow of a doubt that in her inebriated state before she drank herself to semi comatose that she did not act out sexually herself.

    Shame on all of them and ... however since they do not know ... why are the boys being tagged with convicted felonies and rape charges when no one knows what happened.
    The girl was unconscious when they had sex with her. They knew it was rape, because on the video the expression "raped" was used about the girl. They knew perfectly well that they were raping her. The video showed that she was unconsciousness. I don't care if you have 100 sons. If you don't teach them that having sex with an unconscious girl is rape, you're a terrible mother. And shame on you for your victim blaming. Of course we know what happened - it was recorded.

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    Re: Steubenville High School football players found guilty of raping 16-year-old girl

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    Funny that my soc class is doing a unit on group-think right now. You can't just issue a statement "don't rape women" and expect that to stop the mob of drunk undisciplined local celebrities free of adult supervision or consequence zombies.

    It doesn't work that way. The group will set aside moral judgement and standards, so asserting moral judgement and standards will only get you villanised and psychically assaulted just for voicing a contrary opinion. Worse if you act on it. In a way it's a blessing to this girl that she was unconscious, because if she resisted the mob likely would have beaten or killed her on top of it all.

    You have to undermine the group:
    • There needs to be parental authority in their lives.
    • The celebrity status in the town for being an athlete needs to be taken down several notches.
    • The town needs more exposure to the rest of the world.


    Fortunantly, this conviction serves to undermine the group-think by highlighting their faults and adding consequence.

    But you can't just tell a group to not do a crime and expect that they will obey.
    Gee, and here I thought that parents could teach boys not to rape people because: you would not want that done to you; you would not want to victimize another human being; you could get the girl pregnant; you would be committing one of the most heinous felony crimes in your country; you would be showing disrespect to your parents by humiliating them for bad parenting in the sight of God . . .

    Most boys do not rape girls. Many boys are so angry when other boys do this that they go beat them up. It all depends on families that teach boys right and wrong and what hurts others and what doesn't. That girl may have done something stupid, but she did not hurt anyone. Those boys hurt someone, and they knew at the time they were doing it.

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    Re: Steubenville High School football players found guilty of raping 16-year-old girl

    Here's an excerpt from the New Yorker.
    Worse, one could take away the impression that a nice girl doesn’t press charges, rather than that nice boys do not, as was the case in Steubenville, take a girl who has drunk too much and bring her from party to party, assaulting her in a car on the way, until they end up in a basement where they strip and assault her again, and try to make her perform oral sex—except that she is not conscious enough—and then take photographs of her naked body. They do not text “yep” when asked if they had sex with her, or “I shoulda raped now that everybody thinks I did,” but “she wasn’t awake enough”—as Mays did, raising the question of whether he didn’t think it could be rape if she was passed out—and then text the girl to complain about being taken off the football team and tell her “I’ll just never do anything nice for you again.”

    Nice—but nice people at a party watching all this can’t let it happen, let alone send around pictures and videos with brutal captions afterward, and then leave their friend to look at them as she frantically wonders what happened to her in the hours she can’t remember. And nice policemen and nice football coaches don’t act like they hope it will just go away until the pressure of bloggers and social media (and the hackers of Anonymous) pushes them to act. And all of these people cannot then carry on as though the one who caused the trouble was the sixteen-year-old girl who was raped—and who, according to testimony in the trial, has been dropped by her friends, ostracized,

    Read more: Life After the Steubenville Rape Trial: Are the Defendants’ Lives Really Over? : The New Yorker

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    Re: Steubenville High School football players found guilty of raping 16-year-old girl

    Quote Originally Posted by Graffias View Post
    Which is not what the culture is in any Western nation. Maybe "rape culture" exists in third-world backwaters like India and Congo. I do not see violence against women normalized or excused in the American, Canadian, Australia, or European media, though.

    Rape is considered the most heinous crime by the majority of the population, as evidence by the hysteria and hyperbole surrounding the average rape case as well as calls for excessive punishments, such as "hang them" and "cut off their balls and stuff it in their mouths". Violence against women in general is considered unforgivable, while much violence against men is considered trivial and sometimes even amusing. Anyone who believes rape-culture exists truly is blind, brainwashed, mendacious, or just plain dumb.
    You have to watch Candy Crowley, Poppy Harlow, and all sorts of other news people (on CNN, Fox, and MSNBC) show sympathy for the poor guilty boys with no word for the actual victim. And FYI, Fox, CNN, and I think even MSNBC actually allowed themselves to release publicly the name of the victim. Fox had said earlier that it was not going to release even the names of the perpetrators because all the parties were underage, but later they released the name of the victim. It is against the law for the news to release publicly the name of a rape victim, at least a 16 year old one, but they all did it because they did not actually care. They wouldn't get in trouble. Just like football players wouldn't get in trouble. Because the rape of a girl by a boy is ordinarily not treated as that serious. That's why there are police departments in many places that treat a victim who reports the crime as if she were a whore. That is rape culture.

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    Re: Steubenville High School football players found guilty of raping 16-year-old girl

    Quote Originally Posted by choiceone View Post
    Of course you can tell girls how to keep themselves safe. That is not the same thing as evaluating this girl as "irresponsible." This girl was too trusting because she had been socialized to believe that her friends were caring and concerned and these boys were honorable. If there is anything that rape teaches a rape victim, it is that no human being on earth is really trustworthy - that you have only yourself to rely on as a friend and as an honorable person. That teaches you to take care of yourself by reserving your trust for yourself and God, not human others.
    1) There is nothing wrong with evaulating the girl as irresponsible. It's a near unarguable notion. A 16 year old getting black out drunk is irresponsible. Simple as that. There's not a parent on this forum that would make a claim that they'd find it responsible if their 16 year old, male or female, went and got so drunk that they passed out. That's even the case for those over 21, but especially for those under. Again, people doing irresponsible things aren't "to blame" for bad things that OTHER people choose to do when taking advantage of that irresponsability. But other people doing bad things doesn't magically erase that irresponsability NOR make it something that should be ignored so that we breed a notion within society that personal decisions have zero impact what so ever on your safety.

    2) You're spot on in terms of trust issues that come from rape, and it's one of the most devestating and horrible things about it. Trusting is not a bad thing, and indeed is an integral part of the human experienec. A part that is massively damaged in many cases of rape, taking years to be overcome...if it even IS fully overcome. The amount of mental trauma and emotional issues that the rape can cause are in many ways, imho, far more harmful and damaging than the actual moment and is what makes the crime so unimaginably heinous.

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    Re: Steubenville High School football players found guilty of raping 16-year-old girl

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    There's nothing about my culture that needs to be changed. Maybe yours, I don't know. I've never lived in a town like that.
    Neither have I, but frankly, I don't know a single woman in my town who would have shown any sympathy whatsoever for the two boys the way Candy Crowley and Poppy Harlow did on CNN News. Most of the guys in my town would have found those boys disgusting and had contempt for their entire attitude toward girls.

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    Re: Steubenville High School football players found guilty of raping 16-year-old girl

    Quote Originally Posted by sharon View Post
    2 teens charged with threatening victim in Ohio rape case

    Read more: 2 teens charged with threatening victim in Ohio rape case | Fox News

    The teens charged with threatening the victim are GIRLS.. They started on social media within an hour of the verdict. Now the authorities are going after the parents who hosted the party.
    Absolutely...AS THEY SHOULD! If I host, or agree to have my kids host a party where underaged drinking is going on, or people at my party get too drunk to drive, and they leave and kill someone, I can be held accountable. I hope that goes for the people that owned the house this happened in as well...Oh, and kudos to the mom of the victim in this case for using her statement in court to say exactly what needed to be said about these boys....
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

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    Re: Steubenville High School football players found guilty of raping 16-year-old girl

    Quote Originally Posted by Snake Oil View Post
    Equality of responsibility is what we need. It's not fair to hold males to a higher standard than females. Females want everything equal EXCEPT when it comes to responsibility. If a male smeared himself in blood and walked into a lions cage no one would blame the lion for attacking him, he would hold the resposibility for tempting fate and doing something stupid.
    When a woman rapes a man, that is almost but not quite equal to a man raping a woman. Because every man who rapes a woman also simultaneously threatens her with rape pregnancy, and no woman who rapes a man does that. In that context, even if people were not constantly trying to make abortion illegal, it is still not equal - because the woman has to face the possibility of rape pregnancy and decide how to deal with it or suffer it when it occurs. It can't be equal until the woman has gone through menopause.

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