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Thread: Steubenville High School football players found guilty of raping 16-year-old [W:245]

  1. #121
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    Re: Steubenville High School football players found guilty of raping 16-year-old girl

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Invisible View Post
    That doesn't make it OK
    I, in no way, suggested rape was ok. I'm pointing out regardless of how much we try to "change our culture" rapes are l;ikely still going to happen. The same with murder, theft, and violence, in general

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Invisible View Post
    Also, rape culture doesn't mean rape exists in a culture. Rape culture "is an environment in which rape is prevalent and in which sexual violence against women is normalized and excused in the media and popular culture." (Rape Culture)
    and I really question if that actually exists here.

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    Re: Steubenville High School football players found guilty of raping 16-year-old girl

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Invisible View Post
    She isn't guilty for getting raped. How about instead of telling women that they need to do X, Y, and Z to not get raped, we just tell men to not rape women?
    Well sure. And lets tell murders not to kill people, thieves not to steal ****, and drug dealers not to launder money.

    Criminals don't usually respond to "that's illegal, bad, and immoral...so knock it off, alright?"

    The fact is: crime will exist, period. Knowing that to be the case, it is the responsibility of likely victims to protect themselves. You don't leave your car unlocked when parked outside, you don't walk alone in a poorly lit parking lot in a bad part of town at night, you don't leave your front door open over night, you don't confront the guy dealing crack at the park down the street.
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    Re: Steubenville High School football players found guilty of raping 16-year-old girl

    Quote Originally Posted by Napoleon View Post
    What I'm saying is that you can minimize it without restricting what women can/should wear, consume, or do. You can't attack the problem by telling women not to wear miniskirts or drink copious amounts of alcohol and, unfortunately, we have a justice system which favors the accused/guilty more than the victims and their families.
    Studies indicate that the way women dress has nothing to do with rape in most cases. Ignorant people spew nonsense about women "asking for it" when they dress provocatively, but most rapists aren't raping because of sexual attraction, they're raping because of the vulnerability present in the woman and the power and sense of control they feel by dominating her.

    But telling a woman not to get fall-down drunk and completely unaware of her surroundings? That is TOTALLY on the table, because it plays into the means in which a man chooses his victim. We tell women to cover their drinks, never accept an open drink from a stranger, use test strips to ensure their drinks are spiked...and THAT'S okay...but telling a woman to maintain her facilities and sense of self by NOT getting plastered and somehow we're harming women? That's ridiculous.

    If that's the case, then those little signs that tell you to hide expensive items and lock your car are an affront to honest car owners who shouldn't have to take any preventative action to avoid being robbed.
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  4. #124
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    Re: Steubenville High School football players found guilty of raping 16-year-old girl

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Chuckles View Post
    I, in no way, suggested rape was ok. I'm pointing out regardless of how much we try to "change our culture" rapes are l;ikely still going to happen. The same with murder, theft, and violence, in general
    It is unlikely we can eliminate rape(unlikely as in almost surely impossible). That does not mean that it might be possible to lower the prevalence of rape. Looking at country by country numbers, there is a huge difference in rate of rape per 100k people, far more than can be explained likelihood of reporting and differences in what is defined as rape. This is also true state to state inside the US.

    On the other hand, it is not an easy thing to isolate out why the rates are higher or lower(too many variables) and I am not sure that good solutions do exist. I do think we can do better, and the first step is trying to find out what causes the variations in rate.
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

  5. #125
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    Re: Steubenville High School football players found guilty of raping 16-year-old girl

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    It is unlikely we can eliminate rape(unlikely as in almost surely impossible). That does not mean that it might be possible to lower the prevalence of rape. Looking at country by country numbers, there is a huge difference in rate of rape per 100k people, far more than can be explained likelihood of reporting and differences in what is defined as rape. This is also true state to state inside the US.
    No on suggested we shouldn't try to minimize incidents of rape. I was highlighting the fact that since rapes occur, it doesn't serve as evidence that larger american culture normalizes or accepts such behavior.

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    Re: Steubenville High School football players found guilty of raping 16-year-old girl

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Chuckles View Post
    No on suggested we shouldn't try to minimize incidents of rape. I was highlighting the fact that since rapes occur, it doesn't serve as evidence that larger american culture normalizes or accepts such behavior.
    I was not trying to suggest otherwise, and I apologize if it came across that way. I was more stream of consciousness posting.
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

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    Re: Steubenville High School football players found guilty of raping 16-year-old girl

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Chuckles View Post
    No on suggested we shouldn't try to minimize incidents of rape. I was highlighting the fact that since rapes occur, it doesn't serve as evidence that larger american culture normalizes or accepts such behavior.
    Low sentence times, Recidivism rates ignored, People willing to blame the female involved, and actually thinking that stupid comments like the recently stated that women victims of rape should urinate, or vomit on their attacker is what contributes to the culture doing little to address the underlying realities of rape.
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

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    Re: Steubenville High School football players found guilty of raping 16-year-old girl

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Invisible View Post
    I know it doesn't work that way. We have to change our culture to respect women and look at them as human beings rather than objects.
    There's nothing about my culture that needs to be changed. Maybe yours, I don't know. I've never lived in a town like that.

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    Re: Steubenville High School football players found guilty of raping 16-year-old girl

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    There's nothing about my culture that needs to be changed. Maybe yours, I don't know. I've never lived in a town like that.
    I am not talking about the culture in your town, I am talking about American culture.


    Quote Originally Posted by tessaesque View Post
    Well sure. And lets tell murders not to kill people, thieves not to steal ****, and drug dealers not to launder money.

    Criminals don't usually respond to "that's illegal, bad, and immoral...so knock it off, alright?"

    The fact is: crime will exist, period. Knowing that to be the case, it is the responsibility of likely victims to protect themselves. You don't leave your car unlocked when parked outside, you don't walk alone in a poorly lit parking lot in a bad part of town at night, you don't leave your front door open over night, you don't confront the guy dealing crack at the park down the street.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Invisible View Post
    I know it doesn't work that way. We have to change our culture to respect women and look at them as human beings rather than objects.
    "And in the end, we were all just humans, drunk on the idea that love, only love, could heal our brokenness."

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    Re: Steubenville High School football players found guilty of raping 16-year-old girl

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Invisible View Post
    I am not talking about the culture in your town, I am talking about American culture.
    I don't think there's an overwhelming view that women are objects in everyday culture. As others pointed out, if that were true we'd have the same views on rape as underdeveloped middle eastern countries.

    But even if we created a society in which women are viewed as goddesses....we'd still have rape. And we'd still have an obligation to teach women how to avoid rapists. Because it isn't about women being an object...it's about women being vulnerable...it's about domination...it's about control. You have to humanize your victim to get the satisfaction a rapist seeks. Objectification really only comes into play when you get to the punishment phase.
    "Hmmm...Can't decide if I want to watch "Four Houses" or give myself an Icy Hot pee hole enema..." - Blake Shelton


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