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Thread: Obama Wants Research to Wean Vehicles off Oil.....

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    Re: Obama Wants Research to Wean Vehicles off Oil.....

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenton View Post
    The choice comes down to comparitive cost over time.

    Exactly, you decide whether you want to pay half as much for your power over a 25 year period while both lowering the grid load and reducing the cause of global warming.
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    Re: Obama Wants Research to Wean Vehicles off Oil.....

    Quote Originally Posted by Napoleon View Post
    How expensive do you think gasoline would be if the Federal government stopped subsidizing oil companies to the tune of $15.6 billion per year?
    By subsidy do you mean tax breaks? If not, then are you saying the government gives money to the oil companies and then what program or programs are they then given that money?
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    Re: Obama Wants Research to Wean Vehicles off Oil.....

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenton View Post
    Why are people so insistent on electric vehicles ?

    Honestly, there is not a comparable CLEAN electric option that matches up to a gasoline or diesel engine.

    Modern day electric motors are ECM motors, and the battery power to make that car equate to a comparable gasoline powered vehicle is first expensive and second very destructive to our environment.

    Its the same with solar. Its not practical, its expensive and the ROI on your average whole home set-up is 15 to 20 years.

    Thats with a Inverter that has a 15 year warranty on it and panels that have a 15 year warranty on them.

    Its just dumb.
    The odd thing is that I didnt make any claims about either being a replacement for anything. I said that I thought about converting my truck but batteries are too expensive and suck. I then showed a link and suggested that a hybrid would be the better option.

    I didnt even mention solar. But if I had I would have pointed out that solar power runs into the same exact problem of batteries.

    So yes with current technology is lacking in application. The main problem that I see with power generation is huge centralized power plants that must build very inefficient power lines to deliver the power far from the power plants location. Power generation should be decreased in size and increased in numbers. That way it would less likely result in massive power failures.

    But no Ev's and solar are not going to replace the power grid or the combustion engine just yet. But it should be obvious that eventual something will replace todays technologies with something better. No reason to get stuck on current trends though.

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    Re: Obama Wants Research to Wean Vehicles off Oil.....

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Were you really unaware we give the oil companies a $41 billion dollar subsidy each year?

    Budget hawks: Does US need to give gas and oil companies $41 billion a year? - CSMonitor.com
    The article confiscates a tax break with a subsidy. A subsidy is money paid by the government for a particular purpose. A tax break is a credit against the amount owed due to a specific reason like having to pay a tax to a foreign country for production in that country.
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    Re: Obama Wants Research to Wean Vehicles off Oil.....

    Quote Originally Posted by Shadow Serious View Post
    The article confiscates a tax break with a subsidy. A subsidy is money paid by the government for a particular purpose. A tax break is a credit against the amount owed due to a specific reason like having to pay a tax to a foreign country for production in that country.
    This was addressed back on page 14, see below:


    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Tomato/tomato.

    The subsidy in question is a tax break (first introduced in 1926), and is what is being considered to be discontinued.

    "The rationale for this loophole is that it encourages exploration for new oil-presumably something no oil company would otherwise do. Oil industry executives argue that other businesses are allowed to depreciate the costs of their manufacturing investments. That's true, but they're only allowed to take off the actual cost of those assets, not deduct 15% of their gross income virtually forever.

    Introduced in 1926, the oil depletion allowance was restricted in 1975 to independent oil companies that don't refine or import oil. To make up for this, the larger, integrated companies were given the intangible drilling cost deduction, which in some ways is even better."

    Corporate Welfare Oil and Gas Tax Breaks
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    Re: Obama Wants Research to Wean Vehicles off Oil.....

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    Which part? The car part or the disability part?
    Both. Definition of "poor", number of cars, means through which those cars were purchased, price at which they were purchased, and full demographics of "many" disabled. Just the stats and facts. I'm interested to see the breakdown.
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    Re: Obama Wants Research to Wean Vehicles off Oil.....

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Exactly, you decide whether you want to pay half as much for your power over a 25 year period while both lowering the grid load and reducing the cause of global warming.
    I don't believe we are contributing in any large part to global warming. I think the lefts hijacking of the green energy movement and the science of climatology have done more damage to the legitimate study of Global climate change and renewable energy than ANY Global Warming Naysayer.

    They lost ALL credibility when they used scare tactics to create a new tax called, "carbon credits". Yes. give the liberals money and they will save the world.

    Second, if " global warming " were such a concern then why not direct all legitimate tech to applications THAT WORK. Hydrogen Fuel cells output H2O.

    Like I said, photovoltaic with the exception of maybe a calculator is a waste of money. I know EXACTLY how a full home solar rig works, down to the components in the inverter. It's a old technology and hasn't made ANY significant gains in the last 60 years that would make it a credible alternative.

    Germany built a 2 Gig Solar power plant.
    It's takes care of 5% of their grid load, but Germans get to pay and extra 10% surcharge for it's construction and upkeep. Stupid.

    The misnomer of " generating your own power " as a alternative to paying monthly for electricity isn't about saving the earth, it's about blindly adhering to a corrupt ideology.

    A correctly built home, with an automated Energy Management System ( The New ones are adaptive, " They Learn over time and improve " ) to allow in fresh air depending on indoor enthalpy and CO2 LEVELS, with high SEER multistage AC systems with variable capacity and ECM fan motors that not only control temperature but control humidity, with LED Light Fixtures and high efficiency gas appliances is far more efficient than any solar rig set up.

    If you want to capitalize on the SEER rating then you can even go GEO-THERMAL to save even more money. A guy west of Houston just built a 10 million dollar Garage with over a 100 tons of Geo-thermal AC units. Filled the garage with million dollar MOPARS.


    Technology THAT WORKS..
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    Re: Obama Wants Research to Wean Vehicles off Oil.....

    Quote Originally Posted by FreedomFromAll View Post
    The odd thing is that I didnt make any claims about either being a replacement for anything. I said that I thought about converting my truck but batteries are too expensive and suck. I then showed a link and suggested that a hybrid would be the better option.

    I didnt even mention solar. But if I had I would have pointed out that solar power runs into the same exact problem of batteries.

    So yes with current technology is lacking in application. The main problem that I see with power generation is huge centralized power plants that must build very inefficient power lines to deliver the power far from the power plants location. Power generation should be decreased in size and increased in numbers. That way it would less likely result in massive power failures.

    But no Ev's and solar are not going to replace the power grid or the combustion engine just yet. But it should be obvious that eventual something will replace todays technologies with something better. No reason to get stuck on current trends though.
    It won't be Solar and or battery power or wind energy that does it.

    And with Fracking the whole narrative of running " out of oil" has been made just a little more illegitimate.

    Power lines are more efficient than you think. The loss in a conductor isn't due to high voltages, it's due to high amperage. So when you "step-up"voltage " through electro-magnetic induction you reduce amps, when you need the POWER, it's stepped down at sub-stations and then again before it enters you neighborhood, your block or your building.

    It's why the run anywhere from 770kv to 400 kv through the Transmission lines and then step that down substation to 200 kv then down to 14kv and then down to single phase 240 for a home or 3 phase 480 or 240 for large buildings and power plants.

    Voltages are high to keep amperage low and to keep power loss to a minimum at the power plant.

    Here's the formula for power loss through transmission lines.....I2R...

    As far as dependability in my area which is very close to a large metropolitan city, I can't remember the last time we lost power.
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    Re: Obama Wants Research to Wean Vehicles off Oil.....

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenton View Post
    I don't believe we are contributing in any large part to global warming..
    Then you have lost all credibility on the issue. I suggest you vote for the anti-science party!
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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    Re: Obama Wants Research to Wean Vehicles off Oil.....

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenton View Post
    It won't be Solar and or battery power or wind energy that does it.

    And with Fracking the whole narrative of running " out of oil" has been made just a little more illegitimate.

    Power lines are more efficient than you think. The loss in a conductor isn't due to high voltages, it's due to high amperage. So when you "step-up"voltage " through electro-magnetic induction you reduce amps, when you need the POWER, it's stepped down at sub-stations and then again before it enters you neighborhood, your block or your building.

    It's why the run anywhere from 770kv to 400 kv through the Transmission lines and then step that down substation to 200 kv then down to 14kv and then down to single phase 240 for a home or 3 phase 480 or 240 for large buildings and power plants.

    Voltages are high to keep amperage low and to keep power loss to a minimum at the power plant.

    Here's the formula for power loss through transmission lines.....I2R...

    As far as dependability in my area which is very close to a large metropolitan city, I can't remember the last time we lost power.
    Look up the term Electrical Resistance. There is a 1-10% power loss in long distance high voltage power transmission do to resistance. Doesn't sound like much but it adds up pretty fast and any loss is a loss. And also because we are talking about a very large scale so 1-10% accounts for huge losses.

    So no they are not more efficient than I think. And thanx for the very simplistic explanation but I am already aware how power distribution works. I grew up near a river (Clackamas) that had several hydroelectric dams it was the standard in my school district that in science class we learned all about power production. Plus it helps that I have some schooling in that field.

    And I was referring to major power outages, not local disruptions. Things like blackouts and rolling blackouts because the power grid is archaic. Like the one that happened February 8th and 9th this year in the northeastern US because of that nor'easter. 650,000 customers were without power.


    Last year Alone saw Millions of Americans without power. There was the Northeast Blackout of 1965 and things really are not better than then they are actually worse, and in that one 30 million customers were without power. Its a matter of national security and the realization that old technology isnt going to cut it in a modern world.

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