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Thread: Obama Wants Research to Wean Vehicles off Oil.....

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    Re: Obama Wants Research to Wean Vehicles off Oil.....

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    They've been saying that for decades. I'm not impressed with the rhetoric, I want to see results.

    Please show me the quotes from the 1980s and earlier that say electric cars will be on the market and less expensive than traditional cars in short order and if you do I'll show you a couple. One that shows electric cars would be further advanced if the oil industry hadn't used its considerable resources to buy up one significant battery advancement and refused to lets anyone use it. The second saying a new battery that will recharge in minutes and will give electric cars 10 times the range of current technology electric cars (1,000 miles based on the Nissan Leaf) will be on the market in several years.
    Having opinions all over the map is a good sign of a person capable of autonomous thinking. Felix -2011

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    Re: Obama Wants Research to Wean Vehicles off Oil.....

    Quote Originally Posted by Kushinator View Post
    Try again!

    If alternative energy provided short-term profitability, oil companies would be all over it by now. This a major motivation behind mothballing promising research.

    You need to try again. You keep putting gas in your vehicle. If it's solar electric, you never buy gas again or pay the state and fed gas taxes again. If you have wind and solar at home, you don't send your Utility Corporation their monthly stipend, nor do you send your taxes to their partners, gov'ts. It's like an arcade game andif you don't put your quarter in repeatedly, you don't play. The Energy Corporations are the Arcade Game and Renewable kills their game. It ain't complicated. The Arcade Game has the power, and they want t keep it that way.

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    Re: Obama Wants Research to Wean Vehicles off Oil.....

    Quote Originally Posted by Smeagol View Post
    My response had NOTHING to do with whether or not the oil company has to pay lease royalties, taxes, etc. My response had to do with the false notion that American gasoline consumers somehow get to replace Middle Eastern oil for domestically derived oil. Yeah, Exxon Mobil, British Petroleum, whoever will of course pay their lease obligations right after the sell it to the global market. There is no such thing as our own oil in terms of an ability to replace gasoline from dictators who either hate our guts or rule over people who hate our guts by using gas that originates in the US. All that happens is US petroleum is ADDED to the global market and we're competing with China on who is willing to pay the most for it to determine who the oil company will sell it to .
    Go back and find Cat's numbers for oil import/export. The US is a massive IMPORTER of crude oil. If any is sold FROM here (and precious little is) it is a matter of convenience, not necessity. American refiners aren't going to let any CHEAP domestic out of their grasp since they have to replace with far more expensive imports. Also, the US imports very little refined product - except from Canada (ooops, I didn't say that out loud, did I???)

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    Re: Obama Wants Research to Wean Vehicles off Oil.....

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Are there any electric cars that can pull a horse trailer? Or a 19 foot bass boat? Do they come in 4-wheel drive? Is there a place for my tool box?
    As far as a battery electric, it will be a long time before the energy density of batteries
    catches up to hydrocarbon fuels.
    They could design a hybrid to do both of those things today.
    Almost all modern ships and trains are hybrids.
    A vehicle with 4 hub motors, could in theory tow just about anything, the low end torque
    would be better than most IC engine/transmissions.
    MTSU is working on a retrofit kit, the data in the second link says each hub motor can produce
    200 ft-lbs of torque. If you had one of these on all four wheels,, 800 ft-lbs of torque.
    I think big pickups are around 400 ft-lbs of torque.
    http://www.mtsu.edu/research/docs/Wheel_Hub.pdf
    Green Car Congress: MTSU group seeking to commercialize new wheel motor plug-in hybrid retrofit kit
    Last edited by longview; 03-21-13 at 05:03 PM.

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    Re: Obama Wants Research to Wean Vehicles off Oil.....

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    I was referring to the point where consumption exceeds supply. That is what we passed in the US in 1971. There hasn't been a single year since when we have produced as much oil as we consume.
    We will get back to that in the not too distant future. With the metrics that are used today, North American production is forecast to peak at around 14 MM bbl/day around 2020, but again, based on things that were valid in the past, not the future. BTW: I have to refer to continental production rather than US only because our markets are so thoroughly integrated and the US owns most of the production up here anyhow.

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    Re: Obama Wants Research to Wean Vehicles off Oil.....

    Quote Originally Posted by muciti View Post
    Maybe not currently (I honestly don't know), thus the investment in advancing the technology.
    Pour some money into, then. Again, what are you waiting on if it's such a nifty idea?
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Obama Wants Research to Wean Vehicles off Oil.....

    Quote Originally Posted by longview View Post
    As far as a battery electric, it will be a long time before the energy density of batteries
    catches up to hydrocarbon fuels.
    They could design a hybrid to do both of those things today.
    Almost all modern ships and trains are hybrids.
    Railroad locomotives and the odd ship are NOT "hybrids". The appropriate name was bestowed upon them by the inventor of the drive system (Dr Ferdinand Porsche somewhere around 110 years ago) as MIXED drive (or to be precise, diesel/electric). Hybridization implies some kind of energy recovery or multiple energy source, whereas mixed drive has but one sole source of energy, and two or more stages of application of drive. BTW: the most efficient of ships are direct drive diesels. Nothing else comes anywhere near their level of efficiency. EVERY newly constructed large tanker or container ship is so powered.
    Last edited by cannuck; 03-21-13 at 04:50 PM.

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    Re: Obama Wants Research to Wean Vehicles off Oil.....

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Are there any electric cars that can pull a horse trailer? Or a 19 foot bass boat? Do they come in 4-wheel drive? Is there a place for my tool box?
    Not that I'm aware of but what needs to be understood is since the advent of the automobile because of the gasoline monopoly we've been conditioned to think of automotive technology as one way and one way only. Even after the electric car is in place with millions of cars on the roads, there will still be gasoline cars that some people will still want to use. The good thing is because of competition from electric cars, gasoline cars will get less expensive and the price of gas will be driven (free pun) down and all cars will get better as they compete for buyers. Compare it to the the telephone. At one time the Bell Telephone system was all there was. We paid for long distance calls by minute and by distance. Then the Bell system got competition at first from other long distance carriers and then local, then cell phone, then VIOP like Vonage and others. Today because of completion we have a host of *(fill-in-the-number) services; voice mail; unique phone numbers for each member of the family; all you can talk local, nationwide and international calling to select countries for one low flat rate; discounts for bundling other services like subscription TV, home security monitoring and Internet. Competition is a great thing and even if you don't personal like electric cars everybody should enthusiastically welcome them because gas will get cheaper and gas cars get better and less expensive. This on top of ridding ourselves of dictator control of the US economy through OPEC and the American funding of terrorism and nuclear proliferating in the hands of madmen.
    Last edited by Smeagol; 03-21-13 at 05:01 PM.
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    Re: Obama Wants Research to Wean Vehicles off Oil.....

    Quote Originally Posted by cannuck View Post
    We will get back to that in the not too distant future. With the metrics that are used today, North American production is forecast to peak at around 14 MM bbl/day around 2020, but again, based on things that were valid in the past, not the future. BTW: I have to refer to continental production rather than US only because our markets are so thoroughly integrated and the US owns most of the production up here anyhow.
    That's not likely since, except for the slowdown caused by the recession, demand has outpaced supply in the US. even with the offshore drilling and new shale oil and oil sands discoveries and techniques. Not to mention the need to lower CO2 emissions for environmental reasons.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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    Re: Obama Wants Research to Wean Vehicles off Oil.....

    Quote Originally Posted by Smeagol View Post
    Not that I'm aware of but what needs to be understood is since the advent of the automobile because of the gasoline monopoly we've been conditioned to think of automotive technology as one way and one way only. Even after the electric car is in place with millions of cars on the roads, there will still be gasoline cars that some people will still want to use. The good thing is because of competition from electric cars, gasoline cars will get less expensive and the price of gas will be driven (free pun) down and all cars will get better as they compete from buyers. Compare it to the the telephone. At one time the Bell Telephone system was all there was. We paid for long distance calls by minute and by distance. Then the Bell system got competition at first from other long distance carriers and then local, then cell phone, then VIOP like Vonage and others. Today because of completion we have a host of *(fill-in-the-number) services; voice mail; unique phone numbers for each member of the family; all you can talk local, nationwide and international calling to select countries for one low flat rate; discounts for bundling other services like subscription TV, home security monitoring and Internet. Competition is a great thing and even if you don't personal like electric cars everybody should enthusiastically welcome them because gas will get cheaper and gas cars get better and less expensive. This on top of ridding ourselves of dictator control of the US economy through OPEC and the American funding of terrorism and nuclear proliferating in the hands of madmen.
    That's the market working like the market works. However, what's being proposed is a regulatory solution created by the government.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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