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Thread: Obama Wants Research to Wean Vehicles off Oil.....

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    Re: Obama Wants Research to Wean Vehicles off Oil.....

    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy View Post
    No, it's not. Government has subsidized research, then private enterprise has taken the research, commercialized it and distributed it. At that point it's in the hands of private R&D.
    Having been in that "system" for many years, I draw the line between fundamental research (that IS what government should fund) and applied research. As soon as there is a commercial prospect or aspect, government of today's "rule-by-special-interest" guarantees that it gets funded for political expedience, not scientific or economic objectivity. The subject of this thread is a perfect example. The last thing I would ever want to see is GOVERNMENT picking winners and losers in business - and that is precisely what Obama is doing (and what EVERY administration before him as as well).

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    Re: Obama Wants Research to Wean Vehicles off Oil.....

    Quote Originally Posted by muciti View Post
    Just because things are better doesn't mean that they are good and cant be improved.
    True, and it's up to the private market to improve it at this point.

    Quote Originally Posted by muciti View Post
    Just because something has been done for decades doesn't make it right. Neither does making it inexpensive.
    What? Do you know what we're talking about here? I can name at least one fuel replacement that has been inexpensive and freely available for at least the last 40 years - propane. Heck, Henry Ford's vehicles originally ran on peanut oil. We've known since the beginning that vehicles could run on SVO/WVO. All this has been thoroughly researched. Why do you want to pay to do it all again?

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    Re: Obama Wants Research to Wean Vehicles off Oil.....

    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy View Post
    You are wrong, it's precisely how it's worked in the past. The development has to hold it's own in the marketplace.
    Most of our greatest achievements through history have been the result of public/private partnerships in research.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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    Re: Obama Wants Research to Wean Vehicles off Oil.....

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Most of our greatest achievements through history have been the result of public/private partnerships in research.
    No, not partnerships. You mistake the sequence. The government doesn't take the development to market nor should they be doing/paying for the research beyond development. The government may have researched and developed the router, but it's all on Cisco now.

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    Re: Obama Wants Research to Wean Vehicles off Oil.....

    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy View Post
    The government may have researched and developed the router, but it's all on Cisco now.
    Exactly, and research is what is proposed. From the OP - "The money would fund research on "breakthrough" technologies such as batteries for electric cars and biofuels made from switch grass or other materials. Researchers also would look to improve use of natural gas as a fuel for cars and trucks."
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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    Re: Obama Wants Research to Wean Vehicles off Oil.....

    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy View Post
    What? Do you know what we're talking about here? I can name at least one fuel replacement that has been inexpensive and freely available for at least the last 40 years - propane. Heck, Henry Ford's vehicles originally ran on peanut oil. We've known since the beginning that vehicles could run on SVO/WVO. All this has been thoroughly researched. Why do you want to pay to do it all again?
    One of my fields of endeavor have given me a perfect example of the difference between government trying to stick its nose into business where it doesn't belong (austensibly to "research" much of the time), and when it stays the hell out of our way and just lets us get on with things.

    Most of you know about Chuck Yeager being the first to break the sound barrier (although it could be that a certain private contractor pilot did so before him - in the same airplane) because we poured millions of dollars into that research effort for defense purposes. But, how many of you know the whole story about the first people to fly around the world non-stop, un-refueled? That was a HOMEBUILT airplane the Dick Rutan and Jeanna Yeager flew that was designed by his brother, Burt and built by an army of volunteers. One of the most amazing technological achievements of the last century. A lot of the tech developed came from the private pursuit of aerodynamic efficiency - once the job of the NACA, but long since abandoned when the bureaucrats figured out how much money they could get by becoming NASA.

    Speaking of which: you KNOW it cost a king's ransom for NASA to put a man into space, but remember that the same guy (Burt Rutan) designed and built an airplane that successfully flew into space to claim the CIVILIAN X prize for a measly few million bux - far less than the monthly coffee and lunch budget inside of the Beltway.

    When government attempts to do applied research, they out of necessity build an incredibly expensive, six-humped camel. When left to market forces and individual initiative, the result becomes elegantly simple and effective engineering. The purpose of a government is to get it's leaders elected. The purpose of a government bureaucracy is to get its agenda funded. These things are exactly what government should NOT be allowed in any way to do.

    Now, let's look at another related thing: auto emissions. Yes, there is no doubt that cars today are incredibly clean relative to pre-'72. BUT, how did we get to this fantastic place? Did government design these cars? NO! Government did their job and researched the problem and REGULATED what industry had to do. And INDUSTRY did most of the applied research to make it actually happen.

    Simple: Government - legislate, regulate, enforce, defend, infrastructure, fundamental research.

    Private: applied research, product development, production, consumption, market, play by the rules.

    these two lines are all that you need as a formula for success.

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    Re: Obama Wants Research to Wean Vehicles off Oil.....

    Quote Originally Posted by muciti View Post
    How is the government researching alternative methods forcing anything on you? It is more likely that currently Oil is being forced on us now. If you are against something being forced onto you, then alternatives would make sense.
    Petro fuels allow me to do what I want to do. If government regulates oil off the market, then there are things I won't be able to do because of it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Obama Wants Research to Wean Vehicles off Oil.....

    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy View Post
    True, and it's up to the private market to improve it at this point.
    It is not up to the private market. The private market, individuals, and yes even the government has the responsibility to take measures to protect our environment. Investing into technology to better the Earth is not a bad use of our tax money. Seriously, look at what we spend money on. Investing in the environment is probably one of the better things we invest in.
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    Re: Obama Wants Research to Wean Vehicles off Oil.....

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Exactly, and research is what is proposed. From the OP - "The money would fund research on "breakthrough" technologies such as batteries for electric cars and biofuels made from switch grass or other materials. Researchers also would look to improve use of natural gas as a fuel for cars and trucks."
    All of which industry can and will do very effectively all on their own. What government with a BRAIN (now there's an oxyMORON) would do is research and plan how to build cities and communities in which you don't DRIVE the goddamn car in the first place.

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    Re: Obama Wants Research to Wean Vehicles off Oil.....

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Petro fuels allow me to do what I want to do. If government regulates oil off the market, then there are things I won't be able to do because of it.
    What is it you want to do that if an alternative were supplied you couldn't do?
    “Most people do not listen with the intent to understand; they listen with the intent to reply.”
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