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Thread: Obama Wants Research to Wean Vehicles off Oil.....

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    Re: Obama Wants Research to Wean Vehicles off Oil.....

    Quote Originally Posted by cannuck View Post
    Not quite. The oil from the oil sands comes out in two forms: synthetic crude (phenomenally good feestock) and dilbit (dilluted bitumen). The former is less quantity than the latter, and used up by Big Oil refineries in AB for the most part. The latter is what is mostly being produced in newer sites (requires much simpler, cheaper facility) and feeds anything with upgrading capacity (cokers). The reason we buy crude oil at all has more to do with pipeline capacity than anything else. We produce a LOT of crude oil in the West, but use a lot of product in the East, so Eastern refineries can buy from tankers what the pipelines don't have capacity to send East (don't ever reach some of the big ones at all). Also, there is NO way to get any serious volume Westbound (one tiny pipe to Vancouver, no where near enough to make any difference), so the bulk of the oil goes SOUTH to US - thus the big deal about the Keystone pipeline. The added capacity of the Bakken has filled what little capacity for growth was needed for alberta crudes, and has driven the wellhead price for both conventionals in AB, SK, ND down to nothing, and heavies from AB, WY, etc. into the toilet.

    So, a Canadian refiner could buy some nice Rainbow from North Central AB for about half the price of a Brent indexed crude on the water - but there is no way to GET it to the East or West coast, and the way South is constipated. Costs the governments of AB and SK a bundle in lost royalties so badly we can barely run a surplus in our budgets. Meanwhile, AB and SK refineries can make out like bandits on cheap domestic crude.

    BTW: that "cheap to recover" oil from the Middle East benefits the Middle East, not Western buyers. Crude still trades internationally pretty close to the Platt's reports, regardless of cost of production. Nor is it all that cheap any more (lifting costs in Saudi make production costs in the mid-$30 range) as many big fields are in the later stage of secondary recovery. Most of my friends over there are coming over here to learn how we do tertiary enhanced oil recovery.


    Well you be sure and let us know when the US, Canada and Mexico stop importing oil. Also let us know when you have found a way to recover it and burn it that doesn't release CO2.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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    Re: Obama Wants Research to Wean Vehicles off Oil.....

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Well you be sure and let us know when the US, Canada and Mexico stop importing oil. Also let us know when you have found a way to recover it and burn it that doesn't release CO2.
    If we just stop wasting it at such an astounding rate, the US could become energy self sufficient overnight. Canada, as I have pointed out, is already a LONG way past that level. We import because it is easier than trying to ship from the West.

    Now, when I learn how to capture CO2 from all of those cars and inject it into the ground - you will be the first to know (I promise). BTW: you will understand why I prefer the Euro concept of limiting carbon emission instead of some goofey CAFE calculation that favours the flavour-of-the-year from the bureaucrats of the day.
    Last edited by cannuck; 03-20-13 at 08:06 PM.

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    Re: Obama Wants Research to Wean Vehicles off Oil.....

    Quote Originally Posted by cannuck View Post
    If we just stop wasting it at such an astounding rate, the US could become energy self sufficient overnight. Canada, as I have pointed out, is already a LONG way past that level. We import because it is easier than trying to ship from the West.

    Now, when I learn how to capture CO2 from all of those cars and inject it into the ground - you will be the first to know (I promise). BTW: you will understand why I prefer the Euro concept of limiting carbon emission instead of some goofey CAFE calculation that favours the flavour-of-the-year from the bureaucrats of the day.
    Exactly what I'm talking about! And one of our most wasteful uses, as well as the most destructive, is burning it for fuel. Currently, 45% of the oil consumed in the US is in the form of gasoline. I'm with you for strict limiting of carbon emissions. And you can thank Reagan and industry for not having set limits for carbon emissions, as they were the ones that came up with the pollution credit trading concept. That is why I applauded the EPA setting strict carbon limits for power plants. I also would be happy to trade the CAFE standards for strict carbon limits for cars and trucks if it could be passed politically.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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    Re: Obama Wants Research to Wean Vehicles off Oil.....

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    And yet they import more oil than they export to us.

    World oil prices (including the US) are determined by the world oil market. And most of the world's oil reserves are in the middle east.



    Oil reserves - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Wow, we're #2 and Obama won't issue licenses.
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    Re: Obama Wants Research to Wean Vehicles off Oil.....

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    Wow, we're #2 and Obama won't issue licenses.
    BS! And issuing every license requested won't significantly increase world supply over world demand, and does nothing to reduce the damage to the environment that we all depend upon of our livelihoods.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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    Re: Obama Wants Research to Wean Vehicles off Oil.....

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Exactly what I'm talking about! And one of our most wasteful uses, as well as the most destructive, is burning it for fuel. Currently, 45% of the oil consumed in the US is in the form of gasoline. I'm with you for strict limiting of carbon emissions. And you can thank Reagan and industry for not having set limits for carbon emissions, as they were the ones that came up with the pollution credit trading concept. That is why I applauded the EPA setting strict carbon limits for power plants. I also would be happy to trade the CAFE standards for strict carbon limits for cars and trucks if it could be passed politically.
    It COULD be passed politically, but first you would have to get the Uniparty to pull their collective head out of their proverbial rectum. The topic of this thread is evidence that we are a long way from that right now.

    Sorry to sound like a broken record, but other than you and me, there aren't another handful of people on the continent who are thinking of consuming less rather than figuring out how to drop the price to consume more (plug in whatever energy source you wish). Worse yet, 99% of those who would agree with us are not plugged into the partisan machine. I never in my life thought I would have to say this: we need a genuine "green" party (there actually ARE some candidates in Canada) - but one that can stick to reality near the center and present issues as to how they actually damage the economy and society, as well as the environment.
    Last edited by cannuck; 03-20-13 at 09:25 PM.

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    Re: Obama Wants Research to Wean Vehicles off Oil.....

    Quote Originally Posted by cannuck View Post
    It COULD be passed politically, but first you would have to get the Uniparty to pull their collective head out of their proverbial rectum. The topic of this thread is evidence that we are a long way from that right now.

    Sorry to sound like a broken record, but other than you and me, there aren't another handful of people on the continent who are thinking of consuming less rather than figuring out how to drop the price to consume more (plug in whatever energy source you wish).

    "As noted in the report, solar power has been expanding rapidly in the past eight years, growing at an average pace of 40% per year. The cost per kilowatt-hour of solar photovoltaic systems has also been dropping, while electricity generated from fossil fuels is becoming more expensive. As a result, the report projects that solar power will reach cost parity with conventional power sources in many U.S. markets by 2015."

    Solar power in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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    Re: Obama Wants Research to Wean Vehicles off Oil.....

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    "As noted in the report, solar power has been expanding rapidly in the past eight years, growing at an average pace of 40% per year. The cost per kilowatt-hour of solar photovoltaic systems has also been dropping, while electricity generated from fossil fuels is becoming more expensive. As a result, the report projects that solar power will reach cost parity with conventional power sources in many U.S. markets by 2015."

    Solar power in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    As I mentioned earlier, for some applications, that day is here now. I could show you 10 - 15 MW projects on 300 acres that are being built for costs equivalent to thermal plants - and those are genuine base load facilities. The key is in the ability to store a lot of energy at very high temperatures - enough for WEEKS with no sun. The people who developed the technology have built an entire community at 51deg North on the cold side of the Rockies that is solar heated (cost competitive with gas).

    There are a lot of good things happening out there.

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    Re: Obama Wants Research to Wean Vehicles off Oil.....

    Quote Originally Posted by cannuck View Post
    As I mentioned earlier, for some applications, that day is here now. I could show you 10 - 15 MW projects on 300 acres that are being built for costs equivalent to thermal plants - and those are genuine base load facilities. The key is in the ability to store a lot of energy at very high temperatures - enough for WEEKS with no sun. The people who developed the technology have built an entire community at 51deg North on the cold side of the Rockies that is solar heated (cost competitive with gas).

    There are a lot of good things happening out there.

    Yep, and with hybrid electrical systems like mine, people can use on-site solar power when the sun is shining and use grid power when its not, cutting the usage of grid power significantly.

    Additionally, with the use of electric cars we have the potential to cut our gasoline usage by 1/3 of the 45% of oil used in the US for gasoline! And, we have the added benefit of reducing the CO2 that is damaging the environment. That is why I support the research to make it even more feasible to wean vehicles off oil.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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    Re: Obama Wants Research to Wean Vehicles off Oil.....

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Yep, and with hybrid electrical systems like mine, people can use on-site solar power when the sun is shining and use grid power when its not, cutting the usage of grid power significantly.

    Additionally, with the use of electric cars we have the potential to cut our gasoline usage by 1/3 of the 45% of oil used in the US for gasoline! And, we have the added benefit of reducing the CO2 that is damaging the environment. That is why I support the research to make it even more feasible to wean vehicles off oil.
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