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Thread: Obama Wants Research to Wean Vehicles off Oil.....

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    Re: Obama Wants Research to Wean Vehicles off Oil.....

    Quote Originally Posted by Helix View Post
    i don't agree.
    Then you can follow the dream and invest your own money in these ventures.

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    Re: Obama Wants Research to Wean Vehicles off Oil.....

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    When we give a tax break we are voluntarily reducing our income. If you wish to call it elimination of a tax break instead of eliminating a subsidy, so be it.

    Its one of those tomato/tomato semantics arguments.
    But, as I have already mentioned, it does NOT reduce the government's revenue. When you expense out an asset, you are merely claiming as a deduction in one year what you would otherwise deduct over a longer period by depreciating the capital asset. Same amount of tax revenue, just moved back over a longer time. Hardly a "subsidy" by any definition.

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    Re: Obama Wants Research to Wean Vehicles off Oil.....

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    That's why we should exploit our own natural resources. You want to stop using Middle Eastern oil? Let's start using ours. Not only is available now, but it's actually a viable option and doesn't require the government to permanently propr up the industry.
    There hasn't been a single year since 1971, under either party's control, when we have produced as much oil as we consume.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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    Re: Obama Wants Research to Wean Vehicles off Oil.....

    Quote Originally Posted by cannuck View Post
    But, as I have already mentioned, it does NOT reduce the government's revenue. When you expense out an asset, you are merely claiming as a deduction in one year what you would otherwise deduct over a longer period by depreciating the capital asset. Same amount of tax revenue, just moved back over a longer time. Hardly a "subsidy" by any definition.
    This is what is different, as documented above:

    "The rationale for this loophole is that it encourages exploration for new oil-presumably something no oil company would otherwise do. Oil industry executives argue that other businesses are allowed to depreciate the costs of their manufacturing investments. That's true, but they're only allowed to take off the actual cost of those assets, not deduct 15% of their gross income virtually forever."
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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    Re: Obama Wants Research to Wean Vehicles off Oil.....

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    This is what is different, as documented above:

    "The rationale for this loophole is that it encourages exploration for new oil-presumably something no oil company would otherwise do. Oil industry executives argue that other businesses are allowed to depreciate the costs of their manufacturing investments. That's true, but they're only allowed to take off the actual cost of those assets, not deduct 15% of their gross income virtually forever."
    First off, oil companies aren't deducting the cost of assets. They're deducting the cost of doing business, i.e. a loss. Second, every other business deducts 75%+ of their gross income.

    Oil companies don't get government money and they don't receive any special tax breaks, no matter how many times you want to post it, it still won't be true.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Obama Wants Research to Wean Vehicles off Oil.....

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    First off, oil companies aren't deducting the cost of assets. They're deducting the cost of doing business, i.e. a loss. Second, every other business deducts 75%+ of their gross income.

    Oil companies don't get government money and they don't receive any special tax breaks, no matter how many times you want to post it, it still won't be true.


    "Here's a look at the history of subsidies for oil exploration in the United States.

    Origins

    The Congressional Research Service states the fledgling oil industry in the United States first received government assistance in 1916. That was when intangible drilling costs were able to be fully deducted from a company's expenses for tax purposes. In 1926, a write-off for cost depletion was introduced. That provision allowed oil companies to deduct costs based upon overall gross receipts and not just the actual value of the oil.

    Both of those subsidies still exist. The Obama administration claims the average subsidy for huge oil companies is $4 billion per year. The bill in the Senate would have saved $24 billion in 10 years. The White House claims when gas goes up one cent per gallon, oil companies make $200 million more per month.

    Statistics

    The American Chemical Society cites a report by Double Bottom Line Venture Capital that explains how the oil industry has reaped benefits from subsidies. From 1918 to 2009, the average annual subsidy was $4.86 billion. By comparison, the nuclear energy industry gets around $3.5 billion per year.

    When the study adjusted for inflation to 2009 dollars, the oil and gas industry received subsidies amounting to $1.8 billion per year in the first 15 years of the fledgling industry. The American Coalition for Ethanol estimates that when combined with state and local government aid to large oil companies, subsidies amount to anywhere from $133.8 billion to $280.8 billion annually from all sources of taxpayer aid that goes to the oil and gas industry.

    Current Status

    The Obama administration contends the oil industry no longer needs help. The three largest oil companies made $80 billion in profits combined in 2011, which amounts to $200 million per day. The White House also asserts America uses 20 percent of the world's oil but only has two percent of the world's oil reserves. Oil drilling continues in all areas of the United States and oil rigs are plentiful in the Gulf of Mexico, the White House blog states.

    The New York Times had an article dated July 3, 2010, in the middle of the Gulf oil spill. Deepwater Horizon rented the sunken rig to BP. The company used an oil industry subsidy to write off 70 percent of the cost of the rent for the rig which amounted to a deduction of $225,000 per day. "

    History of U.S. Oil Subsidies Go Back Nearly a Century
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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    Re: Obama Wants Research to Wean Vehicles off Oil.....

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    "Here's a look at the history of subsidies for oil exploration in the United States.

    Origins

    The Congressional Research Service states the fledgling oil industry in the United States first received government assistance in 1916. That was when intangible drilling costs were able to be fully deducted from a company's expenses for tax purposes. In 1926, a write-off for cost depletion was introduced. That provision allowed oil companies to deduct costs based upon overall gross receipts and not just the actual value of the oil.

    Both of those subsidies still exist. The Obama administration claims the average subsidy for huge oil companies is $4 billion per year. The bill in the Senate would have saved $24 billion in 10 years. The White House claims when gas goes up one cent per gallon, oil companies make $200 million more per month.

    Statistics

    The American Chemical Society cites a report by Double Bottom Line Venture Capital that explains how the oil industry has reaped benefits from subsidies. From 1918 to 2009, the average annual subsidy was $4.86 billion. By comparison, the nuclear energy industry gets around $3.5 billion per year.

    When the study adjusted for inflation to 2009 dollars, the oil and gas industry received subsidies amounting to $1.8 billion per year in the first 15 years of the fledgling industry. The American Coalition for Ethanol estimates that when combined with state and local government aid to large oil companies, subsidies amount to anywhere from $133.8 billion to $280.8 billion annually from all sources of taxpayer aid that goes to the oil and gas industry.

    Current Status

    The Obama administration contends the oil industry no longer needs help. The three largest oil companies made $80 billion in profits combined in 2011, which amounts to $200 million per day. The White House also asserts America uses 20 percent of the world's oil but only has two percent of the world's oil reserves. Oil drilling continues in all areas of the United States and oil rigs are plentiful in the Gulf of Mexico, the White House blog states.

    The New York Times had an article dated July 3, 2010, in the middle of the Gulf oil spill. Deepwater Horizon rented the sunken rig to BP. The company used an oil industry subsidy to write off 70 percent of the cost of the rent for the rig which amounted to a deduction of $225,000 per day. "

    History of U.S. Oil Subsidies Go Back Nearly a Century
    Do you even know what a subsidy is?

    Look, welcome to the real world...OIL COMPANIES AND DRILLING CONTRACTORS GET THE SAME TAX DEDUCTIONS THAT ANY OTHER BUSINESS IN THE UNITED STATES GETS!

    The New York Times had an article dated July 3, 2010, in the middle of the Gulf oil spill. Deepwater Horizon rented the sunken rig to BP. The company used an oil industry subsidy to write off 70 percent of the cost of the rent for the rig which amounted to a deduction of $225,000 per day. "
    Just like any other business can write off the cost of rented equipment. What part of this don't you understand? And, as far as I know, any other company can write off 100% of the cost of rented equipment, which means the oil companies are getting screwed out of 30%.

    If I'm a hotdog vendor and I rent my hotdog cart, can you guess what I'm going to do? That's right, I'm going to deduct the cost of renting the hotdog cart.

    Stop with the propaganda, because no matter how many times you say it, it still won't be true.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Obama Wants Research to Wean Vehicles off Oil.....

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Its in the goals of the Constitution, the Preamble:

    “We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for common defense, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.”
    And you think that the preamble is legal permission for the govt to fund energy research?

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    Re: Obama Wants Research to Wean Vehicles off Oil.....

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    Like it or not, the Constitution is not the end-all, be-all of everything I wish people would stop pretending that it is.
    Its the rules by which the federal govt operates. Thus its the end all for them. If you dont like it, change it.

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    Re: Obama Wants Research to Wean Vehicles off Oil.....

    Quote Originally Posted by jonny5 View Post
    Its the rules by which the federal govt operates. Thus its the end all for them. If you dont like it, change it.
    In theory. In practice, not so much. We don't live in a dream world, sorry.
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

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