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Thread: Obama Wants Research to Wean Vehicles off Oil.....

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    Re: Obama Wants Research to Wean Vehicles off Oil.....

    Quote Originally Posted by Middleground View Post
    Not exactly sure I know what you mean here.
    It has a relatively low EROEI (energy returned on energy invested), and beyond that, the petroleum (as the energy that is invested) is particularly crucial in the production of ethanol. It's a dead-on-arrival idea.

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    Re: Obama Wants Research to Wean Vehicles off Oil.....

    Quote Originally Posted by Neomalthusian View Post
    It has a relatively low EROEI (energy returned on energy invested), and beyond that, the petroleum (as the energy that is invested) is particularly crucial in the production of ethanol. It's a dead-on-arrival idea.
    Thanks... that's what I has guessed.
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    Re: Obama Wants Research to Wean Vehicles off Oil.....

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Was it private investors alone that developed nuclear energy, or the internet, or petro fuels for that matter?
    Nuclear energy and the internet? No. Petro-fuels? Yes.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
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    Re: Obama Wants Research to Wean Vehicles off Oil.....

    Quote Originally Posted by DaLiberal View Post
    This is a step in the right direction. However, it is going to be slow. We should do more now as well. For example, place restrictions on SUVs. If you want to drive a SUV, you should be able to show why you need it. At the very least, tax SUV drivers exponentially more.
    Which is utterly idiotic. The whole point here is to come up with a replacement fuel that works as well or better than what we have. Having to restrict and limit what we can currently do is not an improvement. Until we have a replacement fuel that allows us to do everything we can do today, at a price that is significantly lower and hopefully less polluting, then the whole process is a failure.
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    Re: Obama Wants Research to Wean Vehicles off Oil.....

    Quote Originally Posted by upsideguy View Post
    Yeah, just like the railroads cornered the market on air transport and the stage lines on bus traffic... Yes, and of course there is always Xerox Acrobat for document management... and wasn't Texas Instrument originally a slide rule company before they become the dominate player in electronic spreadsheets?

    You are missing the fatal flaw of Adam Smith. We do not have a pure free enterprise economy... far from it. Monopolies and Oligopolies are not all that efficient. Their only interest, typically, is in protecting their monopoly. It is much more cost effective for the oil companies to wage a PR and lobby campaign against the idea of government involvement in cultivating alternative energy sources than to actually participate in the research. No point in spending money just to cut your own grass.
    None of that makes any sense, but who cares...right? it sure does sound good.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Obama Wants Research to Wean Vehicles off Oil.....

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    So your theory is that if it wasn't developed in the 1970's that it doesn't need to be developed? Ha!
    No, but that was a nice twist to avoid the fact that those techs were are already developed and ready for market. The market just hasn't shown much interest in losing money on those techs.

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    Re: Obama Wants Research to Wean Vehicles off Oil.....

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Was it private investors alone that developed nuclear energy, or the internet, or petro fuels for that matter?
    Probably no on the first, yes on the second and third.

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    Re: Obama Wants Research to Wean Vehicles off Oil.....

    The internet wasn't developed to be the internet, but a communications network for the military. I see someone mentioned military budget cuts as a suggestion. Probably would have cut that too back then, right? But the internet itself didn't reach the public eye until the web was born (91), after and including that it was ALL private investment.

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    Re: Obama Wants Research to Wean Vehicles off Oil.....

    Seems to me the cities, counties, and states could save a huge bundle by requiring all toilets be like this:



    We could eventually reduce and the rid ourselves of the need to build and maintain public septic systems and would preserve a ton of water. The tech is ready and sold now without subsidization.

    Back in the 70s all the ones in my uncle's house were like this only propane powered instead of electricity. Easiest to use and clean, but the propane place that carried them couldn't seem to make the sales - people were afraid of explosions and missed the flush. Couldn't find them for a number of years, but here they are again in electric form.

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    Re: Obama Wants Research to Wean Vehicles off Oil.....

    Quote Originally Posted by upsideguy View Post
    You have a point... The Internet took 35 years, not 50, from inception to commercial viability. Nuclear energy traces it roots to the early 1930s, and we could have quite an argument as to whether it is yet commercially viable (the results are mixed).
    No, the technology which lead to the internet was developed in the 60s. Telenet was commercially viable in 1974 was was quite widely used from its inception.

    And we aren't going to get into a debate about nuclear because like you said, it would be quite an argument. All I will say is this, renewable energy sources receive 5 times more dollars per kilowatt hours generated in subsidies then nuclear does.

    Which Energy Source Receives the Largest Subsidy? | Clearing the Air | NCPA.org

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